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Thread: Should I have put down a second calibre?

  1. #1

    Should I have put down a second calibre?

    Well chaps, FAC application for a .308 and mod went in to Cambs police last week. Now spending most of my time distracting myself from waiting to go out stalking with anything I can find... I've even been doing piano practice - what's happening to me?!

    Just one question that keeps coming back and bugging me - should I have avoided the future 26 quid variation fee and applied for a smaller calibre too?

    Now - don't get me wrong - if they sign off a .308 I'll be chuffed to bits. It'll do for anything I could conceivably want to hunt (i.e. anything in the UK) and I've no doubt it'll be fun to reload, so if the answer's "no", no worries.

    However, I am one of those people who likes a project and who definitely appreciates having the right tool for the job (or just lots of nice shiny tools!), so I suppose I'm toying with the idea of talking to the FEO at interview and asking if he'll bung a .222/.223/.243 slot on there for a few years time when I fancy a new, shiny rifle of some kind (or at least a set of reloading dies if the wife objects)... I could perhaps say that I wanted to do some muntjac hunting with it, or maybe a bit of highland roebuck stalking... You know - just in case the .308 doesn't work out, which it will, but - you know what I'm getting at - it's rainy day syndrome or something....

    I think I already know what you'll all say, but go on - talk me out of it anyway will you?

    Thanks,

    Adam.

    PS - Anyone have any recent data regarding Cambs police turnaround time? They say 4-6 weeks, so I'm expecting 8, but hey ho...

    PPS - Good reason for the .308 was a hunt for a fallow buck booked in November, or if they do it faster, I've got another one booked in October, but I'm not holding my breath...
    Last edited by neutron619; 23-09-2013 at 19:34.

  2. #2
    Good idea on getting as much on there as you can, then if you want you can vary it later for what you really want and avoid the £26 !

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by palmer_mike View Post
    Good idea on getting as much on there as you can, then if you want you can vary it later for what you really want and avoid the £26 !
    Do you think they'd still accept it when my reason is "paid stalking" and not "lots of permissions"?

  4. #4
    Applied for my fac start of last year on the basis of paid stalking only. Had proof of stalks I'd been on and future bookings.

    ​Was granted .308 and .243 for deer and fox on this basis.

  5. #5
    Ok - thank you for sharing that - obviously that's closely analogous to what I'm doing and you're in the next county, so perhaps there'll be some overlap in practice(!). Perhaps not - who knows?

    I'd still be interested to hear from others, as a range of opinions / experience on which to make a judgement about whether to ask or keep quiet would be very helpful.

    In posting this, I am assuming of course, that it's possible to negotiate what ends up on the certificate at interview - is that a fair assumption?

    I hear often enough of people saying "they wouldn't give me this big calibre so I got this other smaller calibre instead" - presumably that would work the same way for "additions" as well as what you might call "reductions"?

    I also mention that I won't be applying for anything for use on fox - so effectively asking for a .243 (or similar) would be like saying "I want a big gun for deer and a small gun for deer" (in the FEO's mind anyway).

    Thanks again - any thoughts will be much appreciated,

    Adam.
    Last edited by neutron619; 24-09-2013 at 10:49. Reason: Clarification

  6. #6
    Why not say you want a cheaper rifle to shoot for target practice and foxes? I understand HO Guidelines recommend the condition "Any Other Lawful Quarry" and with that you should be covered for Munties / CWD / Scottish Roe if you go the .22 CF root or .243. Do you have a .22lr? If you don't I recommend one!

    Quote Originally Posted by neutron619 View Post
    Ok - thank you for sharing that - obviously that's closely analogous to what I'm doing and you're in the next county, so perhaps there'll be some overlap in practice(!). Perhaps not - who knows?

    I'd still be interested to hear from others, as a range of opinions / experience on which to make a judgement about whether to ask or keep quiet would be very helpful.

    In posting this, I am assuming of course, that it's possible to negotiate what ends up on the certificate at interview - is that a fair assumption?

    I hear often enough of people saying "they wouldn't give me this big calibre so I got this other smaller calibre instead" - presumably that would work the same way for "additions" as well as what you might call "reductions"?

    I also mention that I won't be applying for anything for use on fox - so effectively asking for a .243 (or similar) would be like saying "I want a big gun for deer and a small gun for deer" (in the FEO's mind anyway).

    Thanks again - any thoughts will be much appreciated,

    Adam.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumbag View Post
    Why not say you want a cheaper rifle to shoot for target practice and foxes? I understand HO Guidelines recommend the condition "Any Other Lawful Quarry" and with that you should be covered for Munties / CWD / Scottish Roe if you go the .22 CF root or .243. Do you have a .22lr? If you don't I recommend one!
    I like the sound of that plan in principle - a .222/.223/.22-250 always sounded interesting and, as you say, would do for munties and CWD, but I'd be worried that they'd turn round and say something like "you don't have land, you don't have permission to shoot fox, and you said you wanted a .308 because it would do for everything deer-wise - why do you want another gun?".

    I guess what I'm trying to gauge is how much of a chance I have of being successful with your argument: i.e. "an XYZ would be suitable for smaller deer". I've heard elsewhere on SD that cost isn't a good argument to use when justifying calibres, but I suppose it's a consideration.

    I don't have a .22LR - I'd like to have one, but I don't have the good reason for one or permissions to shoot it on, so ironically, a big centre fire shouldn't be a problem but a little rimfire is!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by neutron619 View Post
    I like the sound of that plan in principle - a .222/.223/.22-250 always sounded interesting and, as you say, would do for munties and CWD, but I'd be worried that they'd turn round and say something like "you don't have land, you don't have permission to shoot fox, and you said you wanted a .308 because it would do for everything deer-wise - why do you want another gun?".

    I guess what I'm trying to gauge is how much of a chance I have of being successful with your argument: i.e. "an XYZ would be suitable for smaller deer". I've heard elsewhere on SD that cost isn't a good argument to use when justifying calibres, but I suppose it's a consideration.

    I don't have a .22LR - I'd like to have one, but I don't have the good reason for one or permissions to shoot it on, so ironically, a big centre fire shouldn't be a problem but a little rimfire is!
    if you join a Rifle Club you will have much more flexibility. Reason is simply 'Target'.
    You can then switch for free using those slots.
    Always pays to have a few empty slots on an FAC, the only limit is Gun Cabinet capacity
    Add Mods to everything you can too

  9. #9
    I think you are getting over concerned.
    Get your Certificate through first as it is.
    you dont want more delays by late changes.
    Consolidate your stalking bookings,
    October sounds optimistic hope you get it by then

    join a club, do dsc1

    apply for extra rifles as and when you need them and can justify them.
    dont forget to apply for a moderator for each calibre as well.

  10. #10
    Itís not a haggling exercise, just approach it as a sort of job application. All youíre doing is putting together a case for why they should trust you with whatever firearms you say that you need. Assuming that the trust issue is fine and that they donít think youíd be a danger to the public (i.e. not a prohibited person, not certifiable, adequate security, ideally some evidence of training like doing DSC1 and/or membership of a shooting club), the next bit is just a question of ďgood reasonĒ, and certainly the Met Police arenít that pernickety about that. Certainly I have no stalking or permissions of my own, all my stalking is as a paying or non-paying guest, but in all cases, not on my own permissions or land, and indeed not in a limited or defined number of places. Other than that, Iím a member of a club for practice and recreation. I asked for a deer calibre rifle for deer and anything else (although most likely just deer), and a .22RF for practice, target and possible vermin should the opportunity arise. And thatís exactly what they gave me, no more and no less. No haggling involved, I just asked truthfully and with evidence to justify it for exactly what I needed and indeed thought I may need in future. I probably wonít use the .22RF for rabbits as I have no immediate opportunity to, and I probably wonít shoot any foxes or boar, but I could if the opportunity arose. Both rifles can be used on targets or live quarry, and I can buy expanding ammunition for both.

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