Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38

Thread: SGC applicants should "prove their suitability" - Labour

  1. #1

    SGC applicants should "prove their suitability" - Labour

    From the Countryside Alliance newsletter http://www.countryside-alliance.org/...oting-industry

    Suggestions by the Labour opposition that shotgun certificate holders should have to “prove their suitability” to own a firearm in future are an unwarranted attack on the 600,000 shotgun certificate holders in the UK and completely unworkable, says the Countryside Alliance.

    In a statement outlining Labour amendments to the anti-social behaviour crime and policing bill yesterday (14 October), shadow crime and security minister Diana Johnson said her party wishes to strengthen firearms licensing, with an increased fee for licences and to “shift the onus to the applicant to prove their suitability”.


    Countryside Alliance director of campaigns Tim Bonner said: “Firearms licence holders understand that gun ownership in the UK is a responsibility, not a right and generally accept the justification for some of the strictest gun control laws in the world.


    “A review of police guidance to strengthen the test of ‘fitness’ to possess firearms, is being undertaken by the Home Office and ACPO, with the full support of the shooting associations.


    “These new proposals from the Labour Party are, therefore, completely unjustified and together will be seen as an attack on the legitimate shooting community.


    “Of particular concern is the suggestion that over 600,000 shotgun certificate holders should have to ‘prove their suitability’ to own a shotgun. Although Labour does not say how these assessments of fitness would be made it can only be an unjustified burden on a law-abiding minority and threaten the future of an industry that is worth £1.6 billion a year and employs 60k people.”


    The Countryside Alliance is not opposed to an increase in the licence fee, but it needs to be accompanied by a better service to those applying for a licence. Numerous inefficiencies exist within the current licensing system.

  2. #2
    If it was gone about the right way I would not be against it. Shotguns can be just as lethal as a firearm so I've never really understood the reason for such a big difference in the application process.

  3. #3
    then don't vote for them your choice !!

  4. #4
    When will people realise 99.9% of shooting people are law abiding
    Can that be said of so called greenies or car drivers for that matter!

  5. #5
    I thought that the "fit to be entrusted" test applies to both S1 & S2 applications, if for some reason the applicant is unsuitable e.g. criminal habits, insane etc. you will be turned down for either under existing rules.

    atb Tim
    Last edited by timbrayford; 18-10-2013 at 21:06.

  6. #6
    Exactly! We already have to prove we are suitable before we are granted.

    The amendments to the Anti Social Crime and Policing Bill were drafted some time ago and first debated during the Bill's committee stage. After many requests for a meeting we saw Diana Johnston and briefed her but they were reluctant to pull the amendments at a late stage. Their re-tabling for the Bill's Report Stage has more to do with the parliamentary role of the Opposition than practical legislation. They knew that the amendments would be defeated.

    We saw Diana Johnson and her number 2 from the shadow team at the Labour conference and went through the details of the licensing system again. We've also given them written submissions on each of the amendments. In brief the amendment on domestic violence would have had no effect - checks are already in place for this 24/7. The amendment on full cost recovery ignores the regulations introduced by the last Labour Government and published in Treasury guidelines (Managing Public Money, and Class 20.10) that the licence fee is effectively a tax and the State can't charge for enforcement, defined by Hampton as form filling and inspection, or capital costs (ecommerce). Should Labour get into government they would have to moderate their line in the light of civil service advice and the responsibility of complying with the rules.

    Johnston made a point during the debate of stressing Labour's support for shooting, as she did at the Labour conference "the future of shooting and fishing is assured under a future Labour government". We have much more work to do with them but the lines of communication are open. This debate taken in isolation does not give the whole picture.

    For completeness we have also stopped the Home Office's attempt to force through an immediate increase in licensing fees on a full cost recovery basis and are now engaged with a government working group which is looking into the whole question of fees.

    I know several shooters have written to her to ask why she is saying this when the evidence clearly sings out that her statement is wrong, maybe you guys woukid like to do the same...

    David

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by David BASC View Post
    Exactly! We already have to prove we are suitable before we are granted.
    In what way do we have to prove anything? If you think that answering the brief questions on the application form and a couple of referee statements in any way constitute proof of suitability, then your definition of proof is pretty weak! The information only goes as far as saying that the applicant and 2 referees see no grounds for refusal.

    Nevertheless, I take your point that 'debate taken in isolation does not give the whole picture' and the background to your discussion provide interesting context.

  8. #8
    OK perhaps my use of the word 'prove' was inappropriate, and I am not going to bother getting into a semantic spat over my use of the English language and I am sure you know what I mean!

    We are already checked, inspected, interviewed refereed and so on to show we are suitable to possess firearms – what other checks and balances do we need none!

    All we need is for the police to deliver in a fair and consistent way…

    David

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by David BASC View Post
    OK perhaps my use of the word 'prove' was inappropriate, and I am not going to bother getting into a semantic spat over my use of the English language and I am sure you know what I mean!

    We are already checked, inspected, interviewed refereed and so on to show we are suitable to possess firearms – what other checks and balances do we need none!

    All we need is for the police to deliver in a fair and consistent way…

    David


  10. #10
    I just dont understand it - lots of shooters I communicate with feel we have a really good system and its only those that are really a bit strange - you know the types that really should not have access to firearms - that ever have any problems**.

    The main thing is to never rock the boat - that way things stay peaceful - like they are now for example - and we can concentrate on relaxing./ having a good time etc.

    Yet politicians and occasionally police officers keep coming out with catchy press statements that could be construed to indicate that perhaps they aren't at all comfortable with private firearms ownership - on any level. Still, there are lots of the undesirable types - as mentioned above - that will be caught out long before anyone dreams of doing anything that impacts on my sport - which is above reproach in any event.

    ** - easily identified as basically any shooting sport that I dont do.

    Any hoo - once I wake up from that dream/ nightmare outlook, I remain very grateful for the ongoing dialogue with politicians from the likes of the BASC. However, I remain of the view that we are trying to hold back a tide of ambivalence, by concentrating on fighting to retain 'freedoms' under an intrinsically 'unfit for purpose' system instead of attempting to change the field - and in saying that I do appreciate such an aim is not likely to be achievable in the short term.

    For the avoidance of doubt, the opening paragraphs were typed with tongue firmly in cheek.
    Last edited by Moray Outfitting; 18-10-2013 at 16:34.
    Stalking, Courses, Gear - Moray Outfiiting Website here - Welcome
    BASC Approved Trainer & Assessor. Cairngorm National Park Authority Approved Supplier. Supported by Sauer Arms
    See you at the Stalking Fair, Scone & Moy 2017




Similar Threads

  1. For Sale "Nite Ize" Led Dog Collars & "Spot-Lit" Clip On Led
    By Monarch Country Products in forum Deer Stalking Equipment
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-12-2016, 12:53
  2. "Farmers" SGC and FAC revoked......
    By PointBlank in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 20-07-2013, 22:23
  3. For Sale "Nite Ize" LED Dog Collars & "Spot-Lit" Clip On LED
    By Monarch Country Products in forum Dogs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 16-04-2013, 20:12
  4. For Sale OutDoor Edge "Zip Blade" & Mora 6" Narrow Filleting Knife
    By Monarch Country Products in forum Deer Stalking Equipment
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 25-06-2012, 21:51
  5. Of "Bulk" Densities, "Solid" Densities, "Energy" Densities & Precision Reloading
    By gitano in forum Ammunition, Reloading & Ballistics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 22-01-2012, 16:01

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •