How much is a Lee Enfield Mk4 worth?

rabbitter

Well-Known Member
This is an odd one for me and I apologise if it is in the wrong section. I have never really had any interest at all in old rifles, but I saw a Lee Enfield for the first time in my life when it came in to my local RFD at the weekend.…. and I find that I like the idea of owning something with some history! Thing is, I have no idea what it is worth.

It looks like the original scope mounted right down to the leather covers. The condition of the whole lot looks excellent. I am told it shoots well, although my interest is more historical than firing the thing.

So, my question to the collective is….. what kind of money do these things normally go for? I'll try to get some pictures later, if they will help.

kind regards



​Ian
 
Depends on what it is and whether it is in a decent condition with all the right bits on.
It is worth what somebody will pay but I would have thought £250 upwards to £400 depending on what it is.
 
There is no such thing as a Mk4................................................. So first we have to establish what the rifle really is before any ideas of price can even be considered.

When you mention Mk4 I am thinking perhaps you mean No4. If it has the flat sided receiver like this:-



Then it's a No4. These came in different "Marks" the one in the Photo is a sporting conversion built on a Mk1/2 receiver. That is it has the updated Mk2 trigger retrofitted before it was sold off surplus and then converted to a sporting rifle.

The only Lee Enfields fitted with scopes were the Sniper varients. The No4T which was fitted with a No32 scope. These were fitted by Holland & Holland for most part. The earlier Lee Enfields have a rounded left wall to the receiver and the rear sight is barrel mounted and not on the rear of the receiver like the No4 and No5 versions.

Some photos or a link would help as I wonder if it's standard rifle with a scope fitted an depending upon how the scopes mounts are fitted will effect it's value. The reason is that a true No4T is expensive. Only a limited number were made and even a real No32 scope is going to cost a fair bit today even without the mounts and those cost a lot and are not easily fitted as the muntign pads are soldered onto the receiver.

​BTW a decent No32 scope on it's own will fetch over £350 with tin and tool then your looking at probably £1,000.
 
The scope wasn't a standard attachment (as far as I know) and if period will add to the price.

Unless it's a No4 T sniper? Has it got a cheek piece on? If so it could be worth many many thousands of pounds - or it could be a modern built one - and as most of these are built using un-issued bits, it will still be worth a grand or so...
Check if all the numbers on it match as a place to start....
 
..and now everyone is googling gunshops near stourport to call and secure the rifle if it is indeed valueable:rofl:
 
That is something that never entered my head!.............................................. but then I am not so keen on shooting the No4's preferring the No1 Mk111's instead. I did have a No4T sans scope for a while got it shooting as it should then sold it and got that No4 Sporting conversion in it's place.

​Some of the after market scope mounts for the No4's are a right lash up or that's what they look like to me.
 
No.4 well used £300ish. No.4T good condition and original parts £3000+. You really have to have some knowledge or trust the seller when buying a rifle like this.
 
Wanting a piece of history I fully understand and now this is a real piece of history:-

9877161.jpg


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9877134.jpg


Plus a real antique too boot. Made for a Boer Burgher in about 1895-1897. Despite trying we can only get as close as the 13 J.P du Plessis Jnr that the Boer Museum lists and not the actual one that owned and carried it.

For those who may not know it's a Mauser M1893 which has the guide rail in the left receiver wall and the square bottomed Bolt face this one was made by DWM and of course is chambered for the 7mm Mauser cartridge (7x57mm). Known by the Boers as the Plezier rifle and this rifle cost nearly double what a standard M1893 or 1895 long rifle cost. Less than 1,000 Pleziers are known to have been made and not all have the nickel silver oval in the butt stock..

So revered still in South Africa a limited run of reproductions built on original receivers were built in South Africa back in the 1980's. Researching the history is part f owning such pieces for a lot of collectors.
 
It's definitely an Enfield No 4 Mk 1 'T'. The serial numbers on the action, scope mount, stock and bolt all match.

I reckon it might end up being a bit beyond my 'history' budget, but I think I will look out for a more run-of-the-mill one.

Thanks for all your help - especially Brithunter - the man is an encyclopaedia. :D

regards


​Ian
 
Even though it's a historic piece if one wants to shoot it then the condition of the Bore and muzzle is paramount. One also has to bear in the mind that most 303's will have been fired using cordite ammunition which is hard on throats and bores. Until a couple of years ago I had a Martini Enfield AC11 converted by the Henry Rifle Barrel Company and last issued in regular service to the pay Corps in 1908. It then went to the cadets it seems as it was marked on the top of the receiver "Not For Ball" even though the barrel and chamber were fine.

To preserve it yet still enjoy shooting it occasionally I bought some commercially made 205 Grain gas Checked cast lead bullets and once the load was worked out it shot reasonably well. The cast lead bullets are far gentler on the bore than jacketed. Re-barrelling such a firearm is not an option as once one does all historic value and importance is lost.

Now for someone like your self who wishes to have a historic rifle yet one that can be shot without too much concern for ruining it's collectability perhaps you should seek out a "Range rifle" this is one that was adapted for the NRA Service rifle B competitions and so can have a small number of improvements like the bedding, trigger work and target type sights fitted. From the outside it looks like a service rifle fitted with target sights but often they have a new heavier barrel fitted and the stock carefully bedded for precision. This is one such rifle:-





Note the inset wooden disc. This is where the standard P-14 would have had the steel recoil bolt. It's been replaced with a carefully fitted Hornbeam wood block.

I removed the P-H 5B rear sight and fitted a standard military aperture rear sight that I got from Gun Parts Corp of America.

​This rifle is in Belguim now where it shoots in Historic Service rifle comps. Similar types in Lee Enfield No1 Mk111 and No4 as well as Mauser 98 and Springfield 03 can be found although here in the UK the Mauser and Springfield are not so common for obvious reasons.
 
I have and shoot a No1 Mk3 London Small Arms SMLE from 1908.

It has the magazine cutoff, but no volley sight. It is marked "Fulton Regulated" and has a 1" stock extension. It is in superb condition.

It shows some signs of "cordite throat" but still shoots into 1" with handloads.

If I wanted to buy it today, £500 - £600.

​But it is not for sale.
 
There is no such thing as a Mk4.
[snip]
Then it's a No4.
[snip]
The only Lee Enfields fitted with scopes were the Sniper varients. The No4T which was fitted with a No32 scope.
[snip]
​BTW a decent No32 scope on it's own will fetch over £350 with tin and tool then your looking at probably £1,000.

Good advice from Brithunter. As for price, £1000? That and the rest. A genuine No 4(T) with it's spotting scope and original wooden case etc is in the order of £3,000-£4,000. There are two coming up for auction at Sotherbys on the 11th of December. A perfect No4T will bear the same serial number of the scope and rifle, "all matching numbers" it might say in the description. There aren't many of those around. Neither of the two coming up for sale is all matching numbers, and the estimate at auction prices is £2,000-£3,000. That's the estimated hammer price. There will be the autioneer's commission and VAT on top of that, you can probably add 30-40%. The catalogue is here Gavin Gardiner

Rabbitter, you also need to be aware that there are numerous 'bitsas' floating around, comprising an ordinary No 4 to which someone has fitted a No 32 scope and a cheekpiece. You need to know what you are looking at before parting with any money. Fortunately, there is plenty of good information online. Do your research. And finally, don't expect any No 4(T) to be as accurate as a modern sporting rifle, it never was and it won't have got more accurate with age. :) I'm not knocking the No 4 or the No 4 (T), just helping you avoid buying a lemon. (I'm the happy owner of an 'Irish' No 4 - one of 54,000 bearing no British proof marks, only the double FF Fianna Fáil acceptance mark)

-JMS
 
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Good advice from Brithunter. As for price, £1000? That and the rest. A genuine No 4(T) with it's spotting scope and original wooden case etc is in the order of £3,000-£4,000. There are two coming up for auction at Sotherbys on the 11th of December. A perfect No4T will bear the same serial number of the scope and rifle, "all matching numbers" it might say in the description. There aren't many of those around. Neither of the two coming up for sale is all matching numbers, and the estimate at auction prices is £2,000-£3,000. That's the estimated hammer price. There will be the autioneer's commission and VAT on top of that, you can probably add 30-40%. The catalogue is here Gavin Gardiner

Rabbitter, you also need to be aware that there are numerous 'bitsas' floating around, comprising an ordinary No 4 to which someone has fitted a No 32 scope and a cheekpiece. You need to know what you are looking at before parting with any money. Fortunately, there is plenty of good information online. Do your research. And finally, don't expect any No 4(T) to be as accurate as a modern sporting rifle, it never was and it won't have got more accurate with age. :) I'm not knocking the No 4 or the No 4 (T), just helping you avoid buying a lemon. (I'm the happy owner of an 'Irish' No 4 - one of 54,000 bearing no British proof marks, only the double FF Fianna Fáil acceptance mark)

-JMS


The £1,000 was just for the No32 scope, tin and tool.

My own No4T was genuine in that the barrelled action, bolt was real however the woodwork was new due to the original being termite eaten. The metal had been re-blacked but the bore was in good condition. A small batch were found in Africa where in storage the termites had gotten to them. Well that was the story. When I bought it the stock was of new beech and had not been fitted properly. I had one of the chaps at Fultons fit and bed a set of original Walnut and one done it shot as a No4 should with the iron sights.

For some reason the No4 just not feel as nice as the earlier No1's so I traded it with a dealer whom knew it's history and specialised in No4's and the "T's" and I acquired the "Supreme" No4 sporter. he had a "Supreme" No1 new as it came from Parker-Hale but that was a bit too much for my available budget at the time.

Years before that I had a No4T that had been converted to Envoy configuration by Fultons for target shooting. The is a fate that many met in the 1960's.

Some of the late production No4's are far more accurate than many believe. A friend got hold of on of the new in wrap ones some years back dated 1956 I think it was and with good ammunition it shot genuine 1-1 1/2 MOA with the iron sights. He also owned a No5 Conv which was a No4 converted to No5 configuration which shot very well indeed. Many could not believe just how well it shot.

The best one I owned was a SSA from the Peddled scheme and one I regret having to part with. It was an Officers private purchase and it shocked me just how well it shot.
 
Some of the late production No4's are far more accurate than many believe. A friend got hold of on of the new in wrap ones some years back dated 1956 I think it was and with good ammunition it shot genuine 1-1 1/2 MOA with the iron sights. He also owned a No5 Conv which was a No4 converted to No5 configuration which shot very well indeed. Many could not believe just how well it shot.

I have two No4, MkII's that were in new condition when I got them. I have never shot jacketed bullets but have shot 215 grain, heat treated cast bullets at full speeds and they shot 1.5 to 2 MOA with me behind the wheel. It is an odd fact that both of these MkII's have a groove diameter of exactly .310 inches, but the throats remain at usual .315" diameter.(causing me to use .314" bullets) The tight groove probably has much to do with the accuracy level of these rifles.~Muir
 
Funny how things go. Anyone my age might remember barrels of war surplus Lee Enfields ... yes indeed, they were displayed in barrels in our "Army and Navy" discount stores. My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I'm pretty sure prices were in the $15 to $25 range. Take your choice from the barrel to the cashier, pay your money, and take it home ... no course, no license, no application, no anything. Thousands of those econo rifles were "sportered" by hunters with widely varying degrees of expertise, and many are still doing service today as freezer fillers. At the time, few imagined that rifles left in their original configurations would become sought after collector items. The crudely sportered ones today readily bring $100 to $200 on the Canadian market.
 
Funny how things go. Anyone my age might remember barrels of war surplus Lee Enfields ... yes indeed, they were displayed in barrels in our "Army and Navy" discount stores. My memory could be playing tricks on me, but I'm pretty sure prices were in the $15 to $25 range. Take your choice from the barrel to the cashier, pay your money, and take it home ... no course, no license, no application, no anything. Thousands of those econo rifles were "sportered" by hunters with widely varying degrees of expertise, and many are still doing service today as freezer fillers. At the time, few imagined that rifles left in their original configurations would become sought after collector items. The crudely sportered ones today readily bring $100 to $200 on the Canadian market.

My dad bought his No4 Mrk 1 at WW Arcade ( icedog will know the place ) for about 25 bucks. The oldman took more game with that rifle than I can remember, he was deadly with it. He carried one in the English Army for many years, that may have had something to do with it.It was my first hunting rifle and I took a lot of game, and my first Moose with it. Dad passed away last year, but some years before he did, he asked me to give it to my nephew who at 12yrs old was able to hunt with us. I gave Wyatt THE rifle and I still remember the look on the kids face when he realised that Dads Enfield was now his. He's 20 now and has taken a lot of animals with that rifle and is still very proud of it.............Its a cut down Enfield, on todays market its worth about $ 150 cdn, but to us , its priceless.

Nostalgic ramble over , AB
 
As a kid I remember them being sold in hardware stores in Australia and displayed similar to how you say they were in Canada. They were about a £5 a piece if memory serves me right but in any case Des one of our relatives used them on the farm but never ever cleaned them he merely threw them in an old outside toilet when they had corroded too much to use and bought another one when next in town. He literally had a shithouse full of old guns I kid you not.
 
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