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Thread: Why is it...

  1. #1

    Why is it...

    That most of the RF & CF rifles I've handled in shops and at Fairs sit in stocks which just don't seem very good or well thought out at all. Some just don't seem to have any sort of decent cheek piece at all, a lot of the synthetic stocks just feel crap and flimsy.

    Why is that when most air rifles have decent stocks, even the synthetic ones have a cheek piece and often feel more substantial than their RF and CF counterparts. I've never quite understood why firearms manufacturers just don't seem to care about stocks very much.

    Can anyone recommend me a rifle available in .223 which comes in a decent stock as standard or is it going to be a case of making or having made a decent stock for it to sit in?


  2. #2
    here ya go.... Tried and true...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #3
    Ah, thank god, finally someone sees the light! companies tend to use kiln dried walnut, usually american black. they don't worry too much about the veining or the layout either. They use a pattern which is reasonably suited for the purpose, cheekpiece and comb height as well as general front end shape, which suits the 'average shooter' ok. they don't have stocks with different comb heights, LOP, grip thicknesses, cant, pitch, etc. simply because it's not commercially viable at the price point in which they aim to compete. In addition of course, checkering is usually done by laser and rather gaudy looking. inletting is usually acceptable, but is not pillared and can usually do with glass bedding as well.

    due to the nature of the wood used and how it's dried, the front ends tend to flex and warp when wet/soaked a few times.

    a good and proper stock is a shape that absorbs recoil properly, fits the shooters height, neck length, hand width and with a comb height to suit the scope to be used. it is also from 10yr+ air dried wood that is laid out with a good pattern that follows the bottom of the buttstock, then goes through the grip slightly angled and runs straight along the front end pointing ever so slightly 'up' so that if the stock warps a bit, it will be upwards and not sidewards, so the warping can be removed with a bit of clearance in the bottom of the barrel channel only and not on the barrel channel walls which will mess with the uniform look left and right.

    a good stock is also glass and pillar bedded of course, and has either a barrel band for sling or a front stud with a rear locking nut to avoid it pulling out.

    there are many other aspects of a 'good' gunstock like hand wrap around point pattern checkering, but the thing is, manufacturers cannot compete with each other for business by making proper fitting gunstocks as the prices would go up by probably 2,000 per rifle, at least.

    you can go to stockmakers and have a 'good' stock made to fit your rifle, like SimJim from Fusion Stockworks on here, myself running Pietas Venatores (stock finishing and leatherware) along with FSW offer such services. I'm not trying to advertise here by the way, just pointing out facts. However, you will need to set between 750 and 2,000 aside for the project, BUT, you would have a very beautiful stock that fits you like a glove.

    of course, you could get a custom rifle built, I mean proper custom, not just an action LW barrel, spray coating glass bedded into a mcmillan stock with a timney trigger (that's not custom, that's just a LEGO job),,but a proper custom rifle will set you back a small mortgage of course.

    so yes, there are options

  4. #4
    What I should have said is a decent traditional style stock, thanks for your reply though daven.

    I'd happily settle for something similiar to the stocks you get on air rifles, the ones on my AA S510 and Superten are great, with an adjustable butt pad they fit well enough, have decent cheek pieces allowing for a consistant cheek weld which is obviously good news for accuracy. And lastly the foreends are more substantial than RF/CF stocks, I guess because they either need to a accommodate a cocking lever or the barrel in the case of a springer or the the air cylinder or buddy bottle in a PCP. Surely a little more timber on the forend isn't a huge ask from manufacturers is it?

    Has anyone bought anything in .223 off the shelf and thought 'yes this is a reasonable stock' I ask because I've handled a few and none seem very good, I've used a friends .223 which sits in an A.I stock and that felt good to shoulder and shoot. Is a replacement stock the only way to get anything substantial?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieazo View Post
    What I should have said is a decent traditional style stock, thanks for your reply though daven.

    I'd happily settle for something similiar to the stocks you get on air rifles, the ones on my AA S510 and Superten are great, with an adjustable butt pad they fit well enough, have decent cheek pieces allowing for a consistant cheek weld which is obviously good news for accuracy. And lastly the foreends are more substantial than RF/CF stocks, I guess because they either need to a accommodate a cocking lever or the barrel in the case of a springer or the the air cylinder or buddy bottle in a PCP. Surely a little more timber on the forend isn't a huge ask from manufacturers is it?

    Has anyone bought anything in .223 off the shelf and thought 'yes this is a reasonable stock' I ask because I've handled a few and none seem very good, I've used a friends .223 which sits in an A.I stock and that felt good to shoulder and shoot. Is a replacement stock the only way to get anything substantial?
    sako 75 stock is one of the greatest factory stocks ever made, very, very good ergonomic fit indeed ;-)

  6. #6
    Thanks I'll keep an eye out for one locally that I could handle, anyone else got any suggestions of rifles with decent stocks that I can keep a look out for?

  7. #7
    nowt wrong with the a1 Eugene stoner and the other two chaps put a ss109 ar15/m16 out there for the usa forces the stock yup and yuck but it worked the ar10 would have been better but thats life. i enjoyed my ar15/10 m4's and were better but that's now not then ,the brits had the l1a1 SLR best rifle for knock down of its time but had a horide stock.

    only fine or hand made stocks are better by far as PLK says, the mcmillon ! ever cut one open they have air voids that you could park a bus in , bell n'c are made better ,GRS very very nice ,even jo west are very nice but the last two are milled to order to a point and as cash is king there rep stands or falls on each stock that is sold.
    Each of us have our own views on what we like some won't have a bad word said on the mcmillon etc, me i like plastic stocks like Robertson stocks but they don't make one for the sako 85 , i don't need to worry if i damage it on wire or a high seat bar .

    one of the lads has redone a P-H on another post and it looks the nuts , iv had gr 5 shotguns and was always thinking of did i catch it on my zip or even mud ! for me it has to be kiss ,i love to look at hard work and how the craftsman has obtained the look but thats as far as i go.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieazo View Post
    That most of the RF & CF rifles I've handled in shops and at Fairs sit in stocks which just don't seem very good or well thought out at all. Some just don't seem to have any sort of decent cheek piece at all, a lot of the synthetic stocks just feel crap and flimsy.

    Why is that when most air rifles have decent stocks, even the synthetic ones have a cheek piece and often feel more substantial than their RF and CF counterparts. I've never quite understood why firearms manufacturers just don't seem to care about stocks very much.

    Can anyone recommend me a rifle available in .223 which comes in a decent stock as standard or is it going to be a case of making or having made a decent stock for it to sit in?

    What exactly are you looking for Ieazo, and are you looking for a sporting stock or a target rifle stock. Are you comparing sporting rifle stocks with for instance target type air rifle stocks?
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  9. #9
    a good stock is also glass and pillar bedded of course,
    Sorry PKL but that's just ********.

    If a stock in good close grained walnut is dried properly then inlet properly there is no need for synthetic bedding not pillars although one could argue that even Mauser used pillars on their rifles right back the the 1890's. And yes i own rifles built in such a way the Rigby just sold was built with no bedding material just a carefully inletted walnut stock and I still own the Medwell & Perrett built in such a way..

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brithunter View Post
    Sorry PKL but that's just ********.

    If a stock in good close grained walnut is dried properly then inlet properly there is no need for synthetic bedding not pillars although one could argue that even Mauser used pillars on their rifles right back the the 1890's. And yes i own rifles built in such a way the Rigby just sold was built with no bedding material just a carefully inletted walnut stock and I still own the Medwell & Perrett built in such a way..

    Kev,

    agree to an extent. I was describing what a good stock would be in the optimal condition/finish. you cannot argue about pillars, like you said yourself, they've been used for decades and decades, and for good reason.

    a VERY good hand inlet stock done finely and using plenty of prussian blue to identify high spots can be as good as glass bedding..agreed, but there are few of them out there ;-)

    so in theory, yes, ultimately, a beautifully hand inlet rifle stock does not need glass bedding,,but a really good inlet is a whole different set of costs of course. even a lot of custom stockers don't go that far, and use localised bedding for the recoil lug and rear tang.

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