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Thread: Are we doing a good job?

  1. #1

    Are we doing a good job?

    Recent threads and topics have got me thinking about the way we manage deer populations here in the UK compared with other countries.
    I reckon we have a bit of a unique system......but the Japanese seem to be impressed with the way it's done here (earlier this year delegates from a Hokkaido university visited BASC to learn about "how to maintain high standards in deer management through training education and best practice") yet we are then told by the newspapers that it's all going wrong and the number of deer in the UK is out of control and that the government wants to encourage more hunters to take up the sport to help control the problem...............so the FAC is easier to obtain and less complicated than before..........hunters are now (apparently) better trained than before, we have DSCs coming out of our ears.......... then conversely we have a seemingly endless stream of people complaining that they cannot find any land to shoot over and not understanding the conditions of their FACs!
    So, where is it all going wrong? or do you think that we (the UK) are doing a good job of deer management?

  2. #2
    "Piecemeal" is the word that springs into my mind after reading the above post. A lot of our land is very well managed with proper cull figures worked out and adhered to, thus maintaining a healthy and normal deer population. But we all know that there are other places where it is a hanging offence to cull a deer and still others where the deer are shot on sight with no thought to any sort of a plan.

    What's more, I can't see any way to remedy this situation. If someone owns a particular stretch of land, how many deer are culled, whether they are culled and why they are shot is entirely up to them, with very little in the way of control over what they can do.

    Perhaps, like so many countryside endeavours, there should be a government grant to landowners that can be claimed when it is proved that things are done to a formulaic plan to encourage a healthy deer population.

  3. #3
    i think we do a good job considering how highly populated we are, times have definatly changed and and stalkers are more willing to engage in culling rather than shooting large numbers of trophies. moreover deer are seen more of a natrual resource rather than a pest and stalkers and landowners are taking more interest in there management and sustainability. as regards to training by no means does it make you a complete stalker but what it does is gives landowners piece of mind and provides a valuble tool for newcomers to the sport to gain sound knowledge in a safe enviroment, without affecting the welfare of deer. Stalking permission will always be difficult to find ive been stalking since i was a kid and remember people who mentored me complaining of same thing that was 20 years ago. it takes years of building trust with landowners, keepers and other stalkers to eventually get your own i have worked hard for mine and work harder to keep it knowing that it is privlage and not a right.

  4. #4
    Some are and some aren't. Huge amounts of land is under the control of syndicates that only shoot roe bucks during the warm summer months and have no interest in the winter doe culling which is where the real population controls take effect. These type of syndicates are preventing not only the control of roe but also the control of the other deer species that many of us would love the opportunity to stalk.
    The estate next door to me would only let out the deer stalking this year to someone who agreed to do the doe cull as well as the buck cull for this very reason. This IMO is why the deer numbers in the UK have increased so much lately.
    Obviously we also have the properly managed land that cull the correct numbers and sexes and species throughout the year.
    Baguio

  5. #5
    OK so there are numerous systems in place........Lone stalkers....estate stalkers....forestry guys....syndicates....
    but who is really letting the side down?

    What we don't see here is proper "hunting clubs" like they have in Europe.
    Could non profit clubs ever work here?
    Last edited by Buckaroo8; 28-12-2013 at 19:49.

  6. #6
    Europe this.... Europe that.... Let's replace the BDS with the European directive for deer management

    The day we start taking hunting advice from the pickled cabbage eating sunbed hoggers is the day I jack it all in.
    Brussels comes before the word 'sprout' and that's it.
    There's nothing wrong with the way deer are managed in Britain we just need to be a bit less selective instead of going all gooey eyed when we see a doe with a fawn.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo8 View Post
    What we don't see here is proper "hunting clubs" like they have in Europe.
    Could non profit clubs ever work here?
    Well they exist for wildfowling, but that's partly by virtue of the fact that Crown property provides a sort of right to fish and hunt for the Masses. But really, given that our land property structure is essentially mediaeval, without land property reform which there is no appetite for, I'm not sure how much you can do on a large scale. There's nothing stopping individual clubs from setting up apart from goodwill, perseverance and money.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo8 View Post
    OK so there are numerous systems in place........Lone stalkers....estate stalkers....forestry guys....syndicates....
    but who is really letting the side down?
    Lone stalkers who have far too much land to manage effectively but don't give any up are at least partly to blame along with syndicates as I have previously described.
    Baguio

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    Europe this.... Europe that....There's nothing wrong with the way deer are managed in Britain
    It may seem like that at the moment but where are we going to be in 10yrs? as Gr1ffer says "times have changed" and they are still changing. You cannot tell me that you haven't noticed an increase in the number of new stalkers and an increase in the price to lease land, even if these things do not affect you directly at the moment. This island ain't getting any bigger you know. It has begun in central/southern England and anywhere near big towns but in time I can see it infecting the entire country, as people outbid each other for little bits of stalking land. Landowners will benefit financially but the deer and the genuine sportsman will not benefit in any way.
    In recent years, roe trophy quality in the UK has been excellent, especially in southern England, because historically we have done a great job, but can it continue now that stalking is so fashionable?

    BASC and some private stalking outfits have a few good affordable management schemes up and running I think, to help people without their own stalking but I am not sure if they will be able to keep doing this when large sums of money is thrown at the landowners involved.

    Locally to me, stalkers have lost ground to people paying x3 more for the ground than last year!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    There's nothing stopping individual clubs from setting up apart from goodwill, perseverance and money.
    exactly
    I think the only people really capable of setting up this kind of thing are the "lone stalker" types with 70,000acres and only stalk 3 times a year, but as you say......somewhat lacking in the goodwill department.

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