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Thread: M39 Finnish nagant markings help

  1. #1

    M39 Finnish nagant markings help

    Dear all.

    So I finally go my hands on this Finn B barrel M39, it has some really weird markings, can anyone help identify?

    1. Swirl stamp on receiver next to 7.62x54r
    2. Weird eagle or flag stamp both on barrel and reciever, and also on the bolt extractor
    3. Numbers '196' next to some sort of cartouche or shield

    I don't recognise any of these markings and I can't find anything similar during online searches, help would be cool.

    best

    james
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg   image.jpg   image.jpg  

  2. #2
    No idea about the swirl stamp or shield, maybe inspection marks or import/export stamps.

    However the Eagle stamps look like a German Nitro proof mark google it. I wander if it came through Germany at some stage? Or maybe was assembled there as if memory serves me the B barrels were made in Belgium and the Germans helped the Finns during the Winter war.

    I must say I would love to have a Finnish Nagant you're a lucky man.

  3. #3
    Snagman, thanks for the feedback. Yep the B marked barrel is made by FN, but those weird looking marks both on the receiver and barrel look to be matching, so who ever put them on there must have assembled the rifle? I've googled every permutation of Finnish, Belgian and german proof marks and none match those two little marks which look to be a globe with two flags sticking out of it with some sort of numeral at the base? Also that bizarre swirl/rifling mark is very boggling! I've never seen anything like it.

    If anyone else can help shed some light it would be great!

    best

    james

  4. #4
    Snag man,

    yup you nailed it, those marks on the barrel and receiver are german nitro proofs! I've attached an example.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    cheers

    james


    Quote Originally Posted by Snagman View Post
    No idea about the swirl stamp or shield, maybe inspection marks or import/export stamps.

    However the Eagle stamps look like a German Nitro proof mark google it. I wander if it came through Germany at some stage? Or maybe was assembled there as if memory serves me the B barrels were made in Belgium and the Germans helped the Finns during the Winter war.

    I must say I would love to have a Finnish Nagant you're a lucky man.

  5. #5
    Looks like your gun was assembled in Suhl Germany schaafman or at least been throught the proof house here's a link to CIP proof stamps.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/hearin...o/genco_en.pdf

    page 16 look at the Suhl shield I'm sure that is what is stamped there on the 3rd picture with the Nitro proof and number above it which must be the rifles ID.

    I'm still looking into the swirl mark but that's giving me some problems.

  6. #6
    Snagman,

    thanks for for your research mate, this rifle is a really messed up little beast! It's a Russian/Belgian made, german contracted, Finnish rifle? What they he'll lead to all of these nations working on one gun?

    do you think at one point that this was a Russian capture taken to Germany and then the Finns contracted Suhl to produce them to their specs for the continuation war?

    this is what I love about some of these old battle rifles, the weird history is awesome!

    james

  7. #7
    I still have no idea about the swirl mark mate but as for it's history hmmmm I'm no expert I just love old guns especially the Finnish Mosins.

    If I was to guess judging from the fact that there's a VKT stamp with the number 3600 on the left side of the barrel and depending on the serial number it might have been produced in Germany sometime during WW2 maybe late 1940 or 41-42 so it is possible that it might have been assembled in Germany. The German proof marks look period from the photo as the one on the barrel is the correct colour so applied before finishing.

    The '196' number is very interesting if I was to guess I might say there could have been a small consignment of 200 rifles assembled out of Finland as a trail..... maybe, it's pure speculation, however VKT were apparently having difficulties keeping up production so who knows.

    Would it be possible for some more picture of the rifle especially the bolt and receiver as it could help date the action, generally there are stamps on the underside of the bolt handle somewhere.
    Last edited by Snagman; 31-12-2013 at 08:26. Reason: facts and words

  8. #8
    Also another quick though what's the overall condition of the rifle has it seen use or is it unissued as I think a few were made from unissued surplus in the 70's and it may have gone through Germany then. My thoughts are that to have the German Nitro proofs and the Suhl stamp that it was either produced/assembled during the war or a long time after as post war Germany would not have been making Military arms for the Finns due to the Russian presence at the time.

  9. #9
    It may have been used as a post war constabulary rifle for the German police. (have seen Carcano's so marked) The 3600 is the pressure proofing on later Finns. I have one of those "sneak" rifles made in the late 60's and early 70's. These were target rifles and used domestically.~Muir

  10. #10
    Interesting that it already has the scope rail (and associated cut out)...

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