Why are CZ mags so ****e.

neil the plumber

Well-Known Member
Been messing about with my new Hornet for quite a while, trying to get it to feed from the mag, and failing miserably. That was with the shortest of COL but to no avail. In the end modified the mag so I could shoot single shots. The mag does not lend itself to having a round laid on the top for a single fed round.
Any way, thought I would treat myself for Xmas, buy a new mag, and go back to shooting round nose shorties. These do not feed from the new mag. Back to square one and £50 light.
What a load of crap and not fit for purpose. :cry:
 
I seem to remember the old hornet would chamber rounds fast but did not like the slow and quiet approach. You could take all the time in the world to lift and lower the bolt but drawing it back and pushing it forward had to be quite brisk this kept it problem free.
 
It's controlled round feed. Even a single round needs to be in the magazine, doesn't it?

David.

Well mine feeds ok as a single shot, as did a .222 and a .223, but the 7.62 didn't, not until a 'slight' adjustment to the extractor.
I have seen a few 527's that had feed issues as described by the OP.
All had one thing in common, the bottom metal was not mated with the actions properly.
It is very easy to get it wrong when putting the action back in the stock.

The giveaway is rounds either not being picked up at all by the bolt, or once picked up they then flip up and
jam the bolt.
If this is a one off, and is properly assembled, then in what way is the round failing to feed ?

Neil. :)
 
Other thing to look for is if the nose of the follower is hanging up on the inside of the mag so the round isn't held flush along its entire length. This will cause a bobble.

ATB,

Scrummy
 
It's controlled round feed. Even a single round needs to be in the magazine, doesn't it?

David.

Spot on kalahari, i wonder sometimes if users understand the principles of controlled round feeding in a mini mauser action.
As the bolt starts to strip the round from the mag the rim is captured by the extractor claw and held against the bolt face as it exits the mag and is guided into the chamber.
Handfeeding a round partially into the chamber and then closing the bolt onto it causes the extractor claw to ride over the rim of the case.
Not only will this **** up the rim of your brass it will eventually lead to damage of the extractor claw.

Ian.
 
I seem to recall some 527's needed the bevel on the extractor to be stoned to aid in single shot loading and allowing the extractor to more easily ride over the case rim...
 
I seem to recall some 527's needed the bevel on the extractor to be stoned to aid in single shot loading and allowing the extractor to more easily ride over the case rim...

With all due respect Marine the extractor is not meant to ride over the rim under any circumstances

Ian.
 
Spot on kalahari, i wonder sometimes if users understand the principles of controlled round feeding in a mini mauser action.
As the bolt starts to strip the round from the mag the rim is captured by the extractor claw and held against the bolt face as it exits the mag and is guided into the chamber.
Handfeeding a round partially into the chamber and then closing the bolt onto it causes the extractor claw to ride over the rim of the case.
Not only will this **** up the rim of your brass it will eventually lead to damage of the extractor claw.

Ian.

My vintage of 527 Hornet allows a round to be tossed into the chamber an the bolt closed: I have done it countless times. So does my son's. PMI's however, does not IIRC.~Muir
 
My vintage of 527 Hornet allows a round to be tossed into the chamber an the bolt closed: I have done it countless times. So does my son's. PMI's however, does not IIRC.~Muir

I dont want you to take this the wrong way and i am not meaning to be disrespectful but your vintage 527 hornet is probably old and worn and has most like lost some of the temper out of the ectractor claw, hence its ability to ride over the rim of the case.

Ian
 
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I dont want you to take this the wrong way and i am not meaning to be disrespectful but your vintage 527 hornet is probably old and worn and has most like lost some of the temper out of the ectractor claw, hence its ability to ride over the rim of the case.

Ian

With the greatest of respect, your wrong, my 527 has single loaded with ease from new, as did the .222 and .223 before it.
It has a lot to do with the size of the cartridge head, the 527 was designed to take up to the 7.62x39, the smaller cartridges leave plenty of room for the extractor to slip over the rim, which is probably why the extractor in the smaller calibre's has a chamfer so this can happen.
As this seems to be the case on most (but not all) examples we have to assume CZ, and before them Brno did actually know what they were doing when they designed and built them.

Neil. :)
 
I dont want you to take this the wrong way and i am not meaning to be disrespectful but your vintage 527 hornet is probably old and worn and has most like lost some of the temper out of the ectractor claw, hence its ability to ride over the rim of the case.

Ian

No offense taken.
When I say "...my vintage of 527..." I don't mean it is old. It's only about 6 years old. My son's is about the same age. MarinePMI's however, is somewhat older. His gun absolutely will not allow direct placement of the round into the chamber. Our later guns allow the bolt to close smoothly and have right from the first day. Two of my friend's Hornets also allow for direct placement of the round into the chamber. If you were here I'd let you try it and you'd see for yourself.~Muir
 
With the greatest of respect, your wrong, my 527 has single loaded with ease from new, as did the .222 and .223 before it.
It has a lot to do with the size of the cartridge head, the 527 was designed to take up to the 7.62x39, the smaller cartridges leave plenty of room for the extractor to slip over the rim, which is probably why the extractor in the smaller calibre's has a chamfer so this can happen.
As this seems to be the case on most (but not all) examples we have to assume CZ, and before them Brno did actually know what they were doing when they designed and built them.

Neil. :)

The mini Mauser actioned Brno/CZ wasn't originally available in 7.62x39 only in Hornet,.222rem and .223rem. Is it possible that when the rifle was re-designed/adapted so as to be made in this calibre the bolt design was modified so as to allow the extractor claw to override the rim of a cartridge just dropped into the magazine and not fed from the magazine?
I know for certain that the .222rem Brno that I had some twenty years ago just would not feed other than from the magazine.
 
50% of the time the bolt rides over the round, and the other times, it pushes the head of the round into the face of the breech. Slow and fast, all the same result.
 
50% of the time the bolt rides over the round, and the other times, it pushes the head of the round into the face of the breech. Slow and fast, all the same result.

When did this start happening, did it just suddenly start, one day fine and next day not.
Or did it start after an event ?

Neil. :)
 
Been messing about with my new Hornet for quite a while, trying to get it to feed from the mag, and failing miserably. That was with the shortest of COL but to no avail. In the end modified the mag so I could shoot single shots. The mag does not lend itself to having a round laid on the top for a single fed round.
Any way, thought I would treat myself for Xmas, buy a new mag, and go back to shooting round nose shorties. These do not feed from the new mag. Back to square one and £50 light.
What a load of crap and not fit for purpose. :cry:

I'm not quite getting this. For .22 Hornet the CZ527 magazine is blocked to fit the cartridge, so 'modifying the mag' can only mean removing or altering the fitted partition so that longer (ballistic-tip type bullets) can be used. It's a protruding 5-round vertical stack box (or a flush-fitting 3-round stack box for the M1).


With my American (and all others as far as I know) you've got both feed options as the .222/.223 rimless rounds can be single fed or magazine fed. Magazine-fed is the usual 'controlled feed' option. In the American or Deluxe model you can single feed direct from the follower platform, or even by poking a round directly into the chamber with your forefinger. The full extractor claw just flexes outwards to clip onto the rim when it's fully home in the chamber ..... you can feel it get a grip as the bolt closes.

It's the best of both worlds. I can only think that there must be a different extractor claw profile & feed arrangement for rimmed rounds like the Hornet, or in the Carbine for larger rimless rounds like the 7.62x39.
 
I'm not quite getting this. For .22 Hornet the CZ527 magazine is blocked to fit the cartridge, so 'modifying the mag' can only mean removing or altering the fitted partition so that longer (ballistic-tip type bullets) can be used. It's a protruding 5-round vertical stack box (or a flush-fitting 3-round stack box for the M1).


With my American (and all others as far as I know) you've got both feed options as the .222/.223 rimless rounds can be single fed or magazine fed. Magazine-fed is the usual 'controlled feed' option. In the American or Deluxe model you can single feed direct from the follower platform, or even by poking a round directly into the chamber with your forefinger. The full extractor claw just flexes outwards to clip onto the rim when it's fully home in the chamber ..... you can feel it get a grip as the bolt closes.

It's the best of both worlds. I can only think that there must be a different extractor claw profile & feed arrangement for rimmed rounds like the Hornet, or in the Carbine for larger rimless rounds like the 7.62x39.

Exactly. I should ask Marine PMI when he got his Hornet. I remember him saying to me that these new ones (the one I had, at the time, just bought) allowed a round to be dropped into the chamber and he somewhat envied that.~Muir
 
Muir,

I got mine right after I got my 452 "Classic" (pre "American" model). I'm pretty sure my Hornet as well as my 22LR were from the first load of rifles that had been held in limbo for 2-3yrs (while "Yugoslavia" was removed from the "supporting terrorism/can not import" list that Clinton botched up) and then imported. Back then you could get these rifles for a song (think I paid a whopping $315 for my .22LR and $399 for my hornet). Nobody really knew what they were, or how well they shot.

(I seem to recall someone's shock at how well the Hornet's shot. :D)
 
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