When did scopes become the norm on every day stalking rifles

Heym SR20

Well-Known Member
Just wondering was it the1970's or 1980's or indeed later when most people started using scopes on their stalking rifles. I appreciate Scopes have been around 100 plus years but fora long time they were considered to be pretty fragile and somewhat secondary to the reliable open sights. And a scope was somewhat unsporting. Nowadays if you turned up with an open sighted rifle it might be suggested you use the estate rifle. How long ago to this change occur. Certainly when I started stalking in the mid 1990's scopes were in every day use, but my father and his generation all grew up with and used open sights.
 
It must be the seventies, i've been involved in the shooting world since the late seventies and I have never seen a stalking rifle in the field without a scope on it.

Al
 
Just after the war scopes really were not an option. Eventually as things started to return to some sort of normality scopes started appearing. I was still using aperture and open sights into the mid fifties. I got my first scope in the early sixties. In truth what others were using was pretty well unknown as there was no internet!
I would guess scopes were in common use by the late sixties early seventies.
 
How long will it be before thermal imaging will be an accepted part of stalking ?
once the price comes down I expect and will they be considered as unsporting as telescopic sights were when they first became readily available to the average stalker
 
In 'The Sporting Rifle' 1951 , 'The Ruffle' (!) says 'Telescopic sights are not used extensively in this country, but they are the rule, rather than the exception, on the Continent'.

In 'Notes on Sporting Rifles' 1953, Major Sir Gerald Burrard's chapter on sights is mainly to do with the iron variety, and the bit about telescope considers at length the problems of mounting, of weatherproofing and of the general delicate nature of the devices as well as mentioning the advantages.

In 'The Sporting Rifle and its use in Britain' 1962, Henry Tegner describes being a member of a stalking-party of five and finding his was the only 'scopeless rifle. I quote "The telescopic sight, or scope, as it is sometimes called, has come to stay. I do not think it impossible that one day, in the not too distant future, the use of this magnifying sight will be universal on all weapons used for sporting purposes"

In 'Deer Stalking' 1980, Edmund Luxmore, while not disallowing the idea of open sights (don't fog, less likely to get knocked, better field of view) is accepting that 'scopes are the thing - 'With care, the advantages far outweight the disadvantages'.
 
Slight deviation but I remember reading articles and books by a certain author back in the early 1980's, the guy would sometimes use open sighted Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles. I am having a senior moment perhaps because I can't remember the name of the author but I do remember that he was married to the artist Elizabeth Halstead who is well known for her paintings of deer. Can someone please remind me of his name as it's starting to annoy me now.
 
I started shooting rifles with my father in the early sixties he was a keeper with a bit of stalking involved ,at that time one did see the odd scoped rifle but they were still pretty much in the minority , in fact my father never had a scoped rifle in his working life.

In the mid 80s I had a client who stalked stags with an open sighted 30-06 Springfield with which he was just as competent as most scope users at normal stalking distances.
 
My father got his first scope in 1973, being the only one with a scope in our area in South Africa. Was a Weaver wide angle 4 mag with a very fine reticule. edi
 
I'd love a open sighted rifle for muntjac in woodland, would be great fun!
Had a bit of a bad experience two weeks ago with my 30-30 open sighted Winchester. Sika doe ran down ~90- 100yds in front of me as it was possibly disturbed by my shooting buddy who walked higher up parallel to me. The doe stopped and I shot her side on. She ran back up only to come back down maybe half a minute later and I fired again at her running as I thought she is surely wounded. A few shots later she went into some scrub and we gave her ten minutes. When we came to the spot she was dead with 4 shots through her, one high heart, one low heart, one liver and a back leg. She had covered quite some ground, luckily I was on a high spot and could see her well most of the time. I am sure with a scope I would have known better if the first shot was good or not. The next shots were only trying to make good.
I put a red dot sight on the rifle now and will try the hornady leverevolution instead of the Remington 150gr soft points next.
edi
 
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I don't or wouldn't have any hesitation in using open sights on either of my doubles but I would restrict my range to a maximum of 50 metres for which the sights were designed. At short range open sights take some beating. In the right circumstances and with the right sights I would be happy to use only open sights up to 150 yards in good light but practise with open sights is the key to this.

No one thought of the gun writer's name yet (Elizabeth Halstead's husband)? It starting to bug me now and I keep coming back to Ian or Alistair but I can't for the life of me remember his name yet I used to enjoy reading some of his writing.
 
Are perhaps thinking of Ian Alcock and Diana E Brown?

His book 'Deer Stalking in Great Britain' 1993 is illustrated by his wife Diana Brown, and in it he describes using a .256 Mannlicher with a shallow-V rear-sight for shorter-range work in woodland.
 
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Thanks Dalua it was Ian Alcock I was thinking of. :tiphat: Sorry about the red herring regarding the wrong wife. :oops:

I can now rest easy all day.
 
I don't or wouldn't have any hesitation in using open sights on either of my doubles but I would restrict my range to a maximum of 50 metres for which the sights were designed. At short range open sights take some beating. In the right circumstances and with the right sights I would be happy to use only open sights up to 150 yards in good light but practise with open sights is the key to this.

I've never shot at a live target anything like as far out as 150 yards, though I know from shooting in the controlled conditions of a range that it should be entirely possible to hit a kill-zone consistently at that distance, but I have shot quite a few squirrels, rabbits and foxes, and a couple of muntjac, over the open sights of my .222/20g combination gun, all but one inside of 50 yards. The gun is lighter and handier without the scope, and immediately usable as a shotgun too, of course.
 
In 'The Sporting Rifle' 1951 , 'The Ruffle' (!) says 'Telescopic sights are not used extensively in this country, but they are the rule, rather than the exception, on the Continent'.

In 'Notes on Sporting Rifles' 1953, Major Sir Gerald Burrard's chapter on sights is mainly to do with the iron variety, and the bit about telescope considers at length the problems of mounting, of weatherproofing and of the general delicate nature of the devices as well as mentioning the advantages.

In 'The Sporting Rifle and its use in Britain' 1962, Henry Tegner describes being a member of a stalking-party of five and finding his was the only 'scopeless rifle. I quote "The telescopic sight, or scope, as it is sometimes called, has come to stay. I do not think it impossible that one day, in the not too distant future, the use of this magnifying sight will be universal on all weapons used for sporting purposes"

In 'Deer Stalking' 1980, Edmund Luxmore, while not disallowing the idea of open sights (don't fog, less likely to get knocked, better field of view) is accepting that 'scopes are the thing - 'With care, the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages'.

Thankyou for that sequence of quotes and sources. What an informative -and elegant- answer to the OP's question!
 
I think it would be fairly safe to say that many if not most shooters coming into the sport in the last twenty years have never shot with open sights. In fact many don't even know how to use open sights on a rifle.

Going back to the original question of "when did scopes become the norm on everyday stalking rifles" my estimate would be mid sixties to early seventies.
Don't forget that stalking was far less popular then and only really carried out by the well to do not the common working man. Professional stalkers would possibly have encountered scopes for the first time on sniping rifles when serving in the forces and would no doubt have wanted the advantage of scopes when returning to civilian life perhaps?
 
Slight deviation but I remember reading articles and books by a certain author back in the early 1980's, the guy would sometimes use open sighted Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles. I am having a senior moment perhaps because I can't remember the name of the author but I do remember that he was married to the artist Elizabeth Halstead who is well known for her paintings of deer. Can someone please remind me of his name as it's starting to annoy me now.

I believe he was a keeper in Scotland, and I too have forgotten his name.
Above my mantelpiece here I have one of Elizabeths magnificent Red stag creations, correct and in almost photographic detail.

I put a scope on my first .22 rimfire in 1951 and there was already one on my first stalking rifle in 1961. This was a Merkel O/U 7x65R with a hand detachable 6X Zeiss scope on claw mounts.

HWH.
 
My granddad used his #4t well before i was born and a bsa with ph 1x scope this .22 was given away my me on this site. wished i had that #4T now
 
Crikey Paul you must of had a hard paper round. I could understand you saying that your father used a No/4T but not your grandfather. :lol:
I take it that he used one when in the forces?
 
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