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Thread: Roe rule of thumbs for medal heads

  1. #1

    Roe rule of thumbs for medal heads

    So... If i cant measure a head, if its been stuffed or the cut hasnt been done properly, are there any rules of thumb which will give an idea of whether they fall into the medal category? Im not overly fussed about them, otherwise i would have had them scored. Just seems that there seems to be a lot of variation between one gold medal and another. I know that the judges perception can tip a head one way or another..

    Im looking for length, circumference and any other things which are taken into account...?

  2. #2
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    There is no knowing. I have seen heads that I would have put money on making a medal and they didn't even reach 100 cic because although they were visually a medal they just didn't have the weight.
    Then others that have been so short but so heavy that they have made a medal.
    Only way really with a taxidermied head would be to have it taken apart
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  3. #3
    If the head is already mounted as a shoulder mount, you will have to trash the whole head to get the cut skull back out.

    Roe are weighed using water displacement, whilst also being measured on beam length, circ of pedical, colour, pearling etc. It is also better to leave the whole upper skull in place when taking it to be measured.

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  4. #4
    Thanks guys, to be fair, im not going to have it measured now anyways, its not that good that i would wreck the taxidermy. I understand its a weight thing but surely someone can allude or give me some examples of length of beam and tines, diameter above coronets etc, just as a rough guide..

    Ive got another one in the freezer which i think will probably stand a better chance of being a medal, but its not as 'pretty' as the one i got stuffed, hence why its in the freezer and not on the wall!

  5. #5
    Afraid not. Two antlers of identical size can be different weights due to porosity. Two sculls of identical size can be different weights due to aging and their respective thicknesses. [ A good reason never to cut a scull prior to CIC measurement.]

    HWH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stag1933 View Post
    Afraid not. Two antlers of identical size can be different weights due to porosity. Two sculls of identical size can be different weights due to aging and their respective thicknesses. [ A good reason never to cut a scull prior to CIC measurement.]

    HWH.
    +1.

    With roe up to 40% of the score can be attributed to weight, hence why estimating off of beam length, span, colour, etc isn't really an option. See Trophy Measuring | BASC for a good explanation on the measurement of roe.

    I wonder whether CIC will at some point reduce the importance of weight in roe trophies, as it has a disproportionate impact compared to other species. BASC, with their measurement criteria above, also emphasise the importance of weight.

    Perhaps someone can answer the question as to why weight should be any more important in roe than it is in fallow, red, sika or muntjac?

    willie_gunn
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 06-01-2014 at 11:01.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by stag1933 View Post
    Afraid not. Two antlers of identical size can be different weights due to porosity. Two sculls of identical size can be different weights due to aging and their respective thicknesses. [ A good reason never to cut a scull prior to CIC measurement.]

    HWH.
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  8. #8
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingfisherman View Post
    Thanks guys, to be fair, im not going to have it measured now anyways, its not that good that i would wreck the taxidermy. I understand its a weight thing but surely someone can allude or give me some examples of length of beam and tines, diameter above coronets etc, just as a rough guide..

    Ive got another one in the freezer which i think will probably stand a better chance of being a medal, but its not as 'pretty' as the one i got stuffed, hence why its in the freezer and not on the wall!
    Your going to need to post some pictures so as we can at least have a good guess for you
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  9. #9
    Not sure that I'd want to do it myself but the only solution I can think of is to cut the antlers off completely at the pedicles and then glue them back on again with really good glue after weighing them. Not sure if the CIC will measure them on their own, although as the other skull cuts have deductions for the weight of the skull you'd think that you could just use the whole weight with just antlers.
    You'd probably want to take a few photos first as well, otherwise you may put them back on incorrectly
    otherwise, for a general idea just get a few medal heads together and compare them with yours

  10. #10
    I have the records of most Gold medal heads over the past decade or so and this confirms two points made by others, a) that by far the most important factor is the weight and as a very rough guide you would not be a comfortable gold with much less than 430grms and 500grms or more would be much better and b) if your head is towards the lighter end of the weight scale you are going to need good length and no penalty points and by good length we are talking at least 27cms probably more. The volume would also have to be at least 200.

    The shortest gold medal antler I have record of is 21.7cms but the weight of that head was over 500grms. The lightest head to get a gold was 372grms but this was 27cms long.

    Hope this is of some help but the only real answer is a proper measurement.
    Last edited by paul k; 06-01-2014 at 22:07.

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