First test of HPS-loaded 7mm-08 ammunition

Pine Marten

Well-Known Member
Hello everyone.

Today I finally picked up my first batch of 7mm-08 ammunition loaded for me by HPS Target Rifles Ltd, with 140gr Nosler BTs, essentially a clone of the Federal Vital Shoks that I'd been using. If you have a look at the attached zeroing target, you may or may no come to the same conclusions as I did. To clarify:
- In the top left-hand corner, the aforementionned Federal Vital Shok 140gr Nosler BTs as a control group. It's a wider group than previously, perhaps because they were the first shots from a squeaky clean barrel, but probably just because of me.
- In the top right-hand corner, some Federal Fusion 140gr that The Deer Man from here gave me last year and that I'd never had a chance to test. It's a fine group, which has been the case with all Federal ammunition I've tried so far.
- In the middle, my first go with the HPS ammunition. The first group of three are all in the vertical line of four to the right. All I could deduce from that was that I needed to go a couple of clicks to the left. A further three shots proved nothing apart from that the barrel of my Steyr-Mannlicher stutzen was too hot. So I stopped for a while at this point.
- In the bottom-left target, my final attempt with the HPS rounds. From this group, I came to the conclusion that they are at least as good as the Federal ones they're supposed to be a clone of (top left), and that both are capable of shooting tighter groups than I am. In the case of any of the the corner targets (the ones not shot when the barrel was boiling hot), we have a dead deer at 100m.

So broadly, I'm happy enough with that. A bargain at 1/3rd of the price of the factory stuff, but all the Federal rounds I've used remain brilliant. Frankly, in terms of accuracy, I'd happily use any of them. No idea why the Fusions produced the best group this time, rather than the Vital Shoks, but it's not because of the gear...

View attachment 36971
 
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Hello everyone.

Today I finally picked up my first batch of 7mm-08 ammunition loaded for me by HPS Target Rifles Lts, with 140gr Noslet BTs, essentially a clone of the Federal Vital Shoks that I'd been using. If you have a look at the attached zeroing target, you may or may no come to the same conclusions as I did. To clarify:
- In the top left-hand corner, the aforementionned Federal Vital Shok 140gr Nosler BTs as a control group. It's a wider group than previously, perhaps because they were the first shots from a squeaky clean barrel, but probably just because of me.
- In the top right-hand corner, some Federal Fusion 140gr that The Deer Man from here gave me last year and that I'd never had a chance to test. It's a fine group, which has been the case with all Federal ammunition I've tried so far.
- In the middle, my first go with the HPS ammunition. The first group of three are all in the vertical line of four to the right. All I could deduce from that was that I needed to go a couple of clicks to the left. A further three shots proved nothing apart from that the barrel of my Steyr-Mannlicher stutzen was too hot. So I stopped for a while at this point.
- In the bottom-left target, my final attempt with the HPS rounds. From this group, I came to the conclusion that they are at least as good as the Federal ones they're supposed to be a clone of (top right), and that both are capable of shooting tighter groups than I am. In the case of any of the the corner targets (the ones not shot when the barrel was boiling hot), we have a dead deer at 100m.

So broadly, I'm happy enough with that. A bargain at 1/3rd of the price of the factory stuff, but all the Federal rounds I've used remain brilliant. Frankly, in terms of accuracy, I'd happily use any of them. No idea why the Fusions produced the best group this time, rather than the Vital Shoks, but it's not because of the gear...

View attachment 36971

The fusions work really well in my 30 .06 also very impressed
if I were you I'd be buying up some stock of the fusions and stick with them
confidence is everything with shooting
regards pete
 
The fusions work really well in my 30 .06 also very impressed
if I were you I'd be buying up some stock of the fusions and stick with them
confidence is everything with shooting
regards pete

I agree they work very well, but I've had groups like that with the Vital Shoks (top left) and the Power Shoks. It just seems that my rifle likes all the Federal loads. However, I can't find a regular supply of any of those in London, and certainly not at a decent price. Essentially, I'm confident that my cartridges, rifle and scope are perfectly up to the task. Whether I am is a separate matter and just down to practice.
 
PM

Worth sending that to John and get an opinion... Might be that they reduce the load to increase accuracy

Cheers
iain

I'll certainly share it Iain, but I suspect that the rounds are perhaps more capable than the shooter. For now though, any of those would be accurate enough to shoot a deer, which is the main thing. They go within an inch or so of where I want them to.
 
I have load data for my 7mm08 using 100, 120 and 140 gn bullets if you want it.

They all shoot to the same point of aim at 100 yds (or whatever the range is on the statics on the BSRC) so I just grab the relevant load for whatever I'm shooting that day which is handy.
 
PM

Please take up reloading as previously urged! I'm still happy to give you a small RCBS press to help get you started.

All this having someone else cobble together rounds for you is frankly painful to observe as are, if I'm honest, the groups which I fear are little to do with your 'hold' but rather no more than the less than ideal rounds you've been given.

If you must stick with HPS loaded ammo can they not produce a variety of loadings and with .5g powder increments just as you would work-up a load for any rifle were it your arm cranking the press? Also, what was the approach to agreeing a seating depth? Who measured OAL?

Incidentally best groups tend to be near maximum load at least that's what I've found.

I've no doubt your rifle is capable of significantly better 5-shot groups than those above and as the Federal top right group hints at.

Cheers

K
 
PM

Please take up reloading as previously urged! I'm still happy to give you a small RCBS press to help get you started.

All this having someone else cobble together rounds for you is frankly painful to observe as are, if I'm honest, the groups which I fear are little to do with your 'hold' but rather no more than the less than ideal rounds you've been given.

If you must stick with HPS loaded ammo can they not produce a variety of loadings and with .5g powder increments just as you would work-up a load for any rifle were it your arm cranking the press? Also, what was the approach to agreeing a seating depth? Who measured OAL?

Incidentally best groups tend to be near maximum load at least that's what I've found.

I've no doubt your rifle is capable of significantly better 5-shot groups than those above and as the Federal top right group hints at.

Cheers

K

Very good advice.
 
Agree with KB, ISTM you should be able to do much better yourself, with even the most basic reloading kit.

There is also indication of horizontal stringing, which may be a technique problem, or perhaps a characteristic of your full-stock rifle.

It was brave of you to post that target.

Not familiar with HPS methods to develop a custom load, perhaps you could explain how they approach this, and what load details they provide to the customer (should be stated on the proof house certificate ?)

I have a portable reloading kit which fits in a .50 cal ammo box, based on a Lee hand press, can be tucked away anywhere, no dedicated workspace required. I'd be happy to post a parts list.
 
.....However, I can't find a regular supply of any of those in London, and certainly not at a decent price. .

Then that is good reason to approach you firearms dept and request increasing your purchasing qty so you can buy at least a 200 box or two at a time. You would also in a better position with the rfd to get it for you and secure a better price.
 
I just got in from an extensive shooting session with my Tikka 7-08. I'm shooting Sierra 120 grain Game Pro's over Varget at just under 2900 fps and the accuracy is outstanding. From a foreend rest (no rear bag) I'm getting five shot groups under .8MOA. Off hand? Sweet.~Muir
 
Agree with KB, ISTM you should be able to do much better yourself, with even the most basic reloading kit.

There is also indication of horizontal stringing, which may be a technique problem, or perhaps a characteristic of your full-stock rifle.

It was brave of you to post that target.

Not familiar with HPS methods to develop a custom load, perhaps you could explain how they approach this, and what load details they provide to the customer (should be stated on the proof house certificate ?)

I have a portable reloading kit which fits in a .50 cal ammo box, based on a Lee hand press, can be tucked away anywhere, no dedicated workspace required. I'd be happy to post a parts list.

I'd be interested to see what's in your portable reloading kit, thanks! As to the horizontal stringing, it's not something I've seen before so I don't think it has much to do with the rifle. It's a free-floating barrel after all, the full stock shouldn't make much difference. It's clear that accuracy starts to go a bit haywire after maybe six or eight shots and I need to let it cool down at that stage if I'm testing rounds. I was using quite a crappy rest though as it was a busy day at the BSRC and all the gear was being used. That can't have helped.

Regarding the factory loads, that Fusion group (top right) is in fact not as good as groups I've shot with the Vital Shoks (top left). Realistically, the lack of consistency there is probably my fault rather than the rifle/cartridge combination. But it's inconclusive.

I'm not over the moon withthe HPS rounds. They're fine, they're adequate for the intended purpose, they're available and they're much cheaper, so you know, those objectives have been met. But there's more work to do. I'm going to have a word with them and see if they suggest anything helpful along the lines you've mentioned about putting together a test batch with incremental powder charges. It can wait though, I have plenty of ammunition for now.

Regarding reloading, I'll come round to it one day. Especially if I succeed in acquiring a 7x57R or 7x65R drilling, for which factory stuff is pretty scarce in the UK, especially in London. And of course it will mean that everything I have will use 7mm bullets. But I lack time to head off to the range to test these things at the moment. It's all a long term project, started somewhere around 1990 I think...
 
It was brave of you to post that target.

You make it sound like I have something to be ashamed of... But it's just one more episode in the same story. And I know for a fact that there are people out there using much worse set-ups than that. But I appreciate that you're all trying to help, and thank you for it. I'm trying to come up with a solution that works for me at the moment.
 
I was using quite a crappy rest though as it was a busy day at the BSRC and all the gear was being used. That can't have helped.
PM

Firstly don’t beat yourself up over any of this and be assured no one as far as I can see has posted with the intention of making you feel bad. If however you’re now one step closer to biting the bullet and cracking on with reloading so be it as much improved groups is for most folks the main point of reloading and even above *cost. (*Note: If I could purchase 6.5X55 factory ammo that produced 5-shot groups like the attached from a sporter weight S90 barrel be assured I would!)

Having noted your comment about a less than ideal rest and being under pressure of bench time on a BSRC “range Day” then upon reflection you may indeed have contributed to the group sizes and shape. May I therefore suggest that whatever you do moving forward by way of ammo testing get yourself a large front rest/bag that will permit you to support the rifle in your hand as you would when shooting in the field and make sure you use the all-important REAR bag with ‘bunny ears’ as may be borrowed from the club house. This takes all the error out of the elevation side and cannot be over emphasised as an aid to shooting good groups in my opinion. If you find that lightly cradling the forend in the hand while letting the front bag take the strain produces more consistent groups, do remember to both zero the rifle with this hold and adopt the same approach when using sticks.

Cheers

K


SFTT1_zps10b7ac92.jpg
 
K, I don't think anyone's having a go, although I recognise the reloading proselytising! Some of you lot have the zeal of recent converts. I daresay I'll catch that one day. I think your point about rests is right though. I saw one chap there who essentially had a fully upholstered three piece suite for his rifle. I may see if I can just go down there on my own one day, and have all the gear and facilities at my disposal. I do tend to rush things when there are lots of people around. Although strangely, I've never experienced what people call "buck fever". Target fever yes, but not on live quarry. The massive adrenaline rush that causes the shakes comes afterwards.

I'm now engaged in a bit of a chat about this with HPS, we shall see what they suggest. They do know their business after all. But I have plenty of ammunition for now.

Interestingly though, all of the rounds seem to have almost the same POI to within an inch or so. I've never had to change more than a couple of clicks since I first set the scope up, which is reassuring. Essentially, it looks like this rifle/scope combination will happily hit 2" target with pretty much anything you put in it, which is a workable entry-level degree of reliability.
 
K, I don't think anyone's having a go, although I recognise the reloading proselytising! Some of you lot have the zeal of recent converts. I daresay I'll catch that one day. I think your point about rests is right though. I saw one chap there who essentially had a fully upholstered three piece suite for his rifle. I may see if I can just go down there on my own one day, and have all the gear and facilities at my disposal. I do tend to rush things when there are lots of people around. Although strangely, I've never experienced what people call "buck fever". Target fever yes, but not on live quarry. The massive adrenaline rush that causes the shakes comes afterwards.

I'm now engaged in a bit of a chat about this with HPS, we shall see what they suggest. They do know their business after all. But I have plenty of ammunition for now.

Interestingly though, all of the rounds seem to have almost the same POI to within an inch or so. I've never had to change more than a couple of clicks since I first set the scope up, which is reassuring. Essentially, it looks like this rifle/scope combination will happily hit 2" target with pretty much anything you put in it, which is a workable entry-level degree of reliability.

I used to be quite content with groups like you posted. Then with a little reluctance and a few conversations with reloaders I allowed myself to be persuaded into buying a Lee anniversary kit. To say that the scales then fell from my eyes would be a fair statement. I learned that what I had thought was my poorish shooting technique was mostly my factory ammo choice's fault... Same rifle, cheaply reloaded ammo and bingo... my first clover leafs, with minimal real effort. The confidence boost was incredible.

Not trying to convert you or anything... but that's the way it is.
 
K, I don't think anyone's having a go, although I recognise the reloading proselytising! Some of you lot have the zeal of recent converts. I daresay I'll catch that one day. I think your point about rests is right though. I saw one chap there who essentially had a fully upholstered three piece suite for his rifle. I may see if I can just go down there on my own one day, and have all the gear and facilities at my disposal. I do tend to rush things when there are lots of people around. Although strangely, I've never experienced what people call "buck fever". Target fever yes, but not on live quarry. The massive adrenaline rush that causes the shakes comes afterwards.



I'm now engaged in a bit of a chat about this with HPS, we shall see what they suggest. They do know their business after all. But I have plenty of ammunition for now.

Interestingly though, all of the rounds seem to have almost the same POI to within an inch or so. I've never had to change more than a couple of clicks since I first set the scope up, which is reassuring. Essentially, it looks like this rifle/scope combination will happily hit 2" target with pretty much anything you put in it, which is a workable entry-level degree of reliability.

None more self-righteous than repentant sinners!
 
Add me to the zealot list. The thing is that reloading is far simpler than the reading of these forums lets on. Minimal equipment and good technique will get you very good ammunition from the start. It's hard not to encourage someone to take it up.~Muir
 
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