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Thread: Deliberate aiming to shot through the shoulders, right or wrong?

  1. #1

    Deliberate aiming to shot through the shoulders, right or wrong?

    Yesterday afternoon 5 stalkers of our DMG worked together on the Roe deer cull/crop pretection on some of my permissions.
    During the briefing I suggested to one stalker that in a particular location on the route of his stalk (land-boundary, steep over-grown impenetrable bank) he should aim to shoot broadside but through the shoulders, so the deer wouldn't/couldn't run very far.
    This suggestion was dismissed as being totally wrong and unethical.

    While respecting this individuals personal views (This is a professional deer manager) , I did check the D.I's Best Practise Guides, and in this given situation a broadside shot through the shoulders is recommended. I quote from the D.I. 'Culling Deer' Best Practice Guide:

    "A common reaction to a lethal chest shot is that the deer will run a short distance, then collapse, dead. A shot slightly more forwards, which involves both shoulders, is equally humane and will usually cause the animal to drop on the spot."

    My own view is that I prefer to recover a carcass and have meat damage to the shoulders, above a perfect shot with no meat damage but a long and difficult, dangerous and maybe impossible follow up.

    I am very interested in any views you may have.
    Thank you
    • Do not be seduced by the marketing-men....

  2. #2

    Deliberate aiming to shot through the shoulders, right or wrong?

    Yesterday afternoon 5 stalkers of our DMG worked together on the Roe deer cull/crop pretection on some of my permissions.
    During the briefing I suggested to one stalker that in a particular location on the route of his stalk (land-boundary, steep over-grown impenetrable bank) he should aim to shoot broadside but through the shoulders, so the deer wouldn't/couldn't run very far.
    This suggestion was dismissed as being totally wrong and unethical.

    While respecting this individuals personal views (This is a professional deer manager) , I did check the D.I's Best Practise Guides, and in this given situation a broadside shot through the shoulders is recommended. I quote from the D.I. 'Culling Deer - shot placement' Best Practice Guide:

    "A common reaction to a lethal chest shot is that the deer will run a short distance, then collapse, dead. A shot slightly more forwards, which involves both shoulders, is equally humane and will usually cause the animal to drop on the spot."

    My own view is that I prefer to recover a carcass and have meat damage to the shoulders, above a perfect shot with no meat damage but a long and difficult, dangerous and maybe impossible follow up.

    I am very interested in any views you may have.
    Thank you
    • Do not be seduced by the marketing-men....

  3. #3
    I personally have no problem with this, providing the animal is down and dead pretty much instantly.

  4. #4
    1) High shoulder shot= pull the trigger and see their belly...
    2)180 gr bullet= little to no meat damage
    3) 1+2= clean kill with no organ damage (unless you use a popgun with a small bullet) /internal bleeding, quick death, and happier/stressfree hunt for hunter and game.

  5. #5
    Firstly I love the title professional deer manager very slick lol

    as regards shoulder shots I personally don't think there's anything wrong with them especially in the situation you say , in fact I had to use a shoulder shot last year on a couple of fallow does near an overgrown embankment the place is really dense cover and recovery would be next to impossible , I don't think there's anything unethical about it

    atb Jim
    There are no perfect men in this world ..... Only perfect intentions

  6. #6
    My view is that if it's your ground and your briefing as to what you expect then
    that should be followed

    but if the chap sees it as wrong and unethical then he should not be forced to do
    something he uneasy with

    I personally have never set out to shoulder a beast and would only do so if it was a
    recovery shot on a wounded animal etc

    perhaps the right thing to do in your situation was to ask him not to take a shot in
    that particular part of the beat .

    should be an interesting thread with differing views as people have different beats
    with different obstacles and cull plans etc
    the bottom line is the deer welfare .
    JMHO. Regards pete

  7. #7
    Not the best of situations to be in, I always have my GWP with me when on my own ground, nothing worse than losing a beast to a H&L shot placement due to thick cover. Waste of a life and carcass

    I guess the proper wave of thought is if you cannot guarantee a safe shot AND retrieval, should the shot be taken In the first place. ? My own thoughts would be to check out the whole picture, if you find it's not right leave for another day

    I guess there's nothing wrong with a shoulder pin shot, if you can live with damage to the beast

    atb

    phil
    Last edited by philip; 23-01-2014 at 12:07.

  8. #8
    If things go slightly tits up at least with chest shots you hopefully have a blood trail to follow .. not so much so with shoulder shots.
    https://www.justgiving.com/John-Slee/
    "He who kills sow with piglets empties the forest of boar" My neighbours dad on new years eve 2011.

  9. #9
    I think "totally wrong and unethical" is a poor choice of words from the "professional deer manager". What is unethical about a solid heart/lung shot and making sure it can't go anywhere in the same shot. Quick and Dead is Quick and Dead as far as I am concerned whether it runs 100 yards before dropping or expires in the spot it fell. Nothing unethical thats for sure.

  10. #10
    clearly a lack of understanding by people on shot placement.

    shoulder shots, especially high shoulder shots are hugely effective and far more ethical if there's a chance a standard H/L shot will mean a long track in deep woodland or difficulty in dispatching an animal that's not yet dead.

    shoulder shots are also good practice depending on your choice of calibre and bullet construction, as well as estimated MV of impact/ie, 'range' in light of the bullets constructino..if you're shooting a bullet that is unlikely to expand at fast velocity, it's best practice to put it through bone to initiate expansion, otherwise a long bleed is to be expected.

    similarly, with a .222 or .223 and quick 50g SP's, best practice is to put them in the soft areas like H/L or neck, as putting them through bone might mean failure to penetrate.

    just buying a box of privi and thinking they're great is not the way a properly educated hunter should work..think, study, and consider your options on bullet choice, range, MV, construction, shot placement, etc. etc. for the situation you're in..it might call for a different setup for woodland roe stalking to hill stalking roe..hence,,,yes, be careful of the man with just one rifle...but that doesn't mean he only uses one load
    Last edited by PKL; 23-01-2014 at 12:45.

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