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Thread: In which the Pine Marten asks a tonne of newbie questions on reloading.

  1. #1

    In which the Pine Marten asks a tonne of newbie questions on reloading.

    Hello everyone!

    First of all, I once again wanted to thank all the generous SD members who have sent me their spare reloading gear free of charge so that I can start down the path towards reloading for my 7mm-08 rifle. Specifically, Id like to thank Bewsher500, Klenchblaize, Gr1ffer, Hornet6, Baconbuttie, and finally SikaJames who helped me to identify some of the more obscure items. Ive now established that I have all the equipment that I need apart from a case trimmer, so I need to order one of those.

    Yesterday, I read through all the relevant sections of the Lee reloading guide which I ordered last week. That was actually remarkably short once you strip out some of Mr Lees product placement sections. Most of the book is load data. Which is of course a good thing, because it actually looks pretty simple. Certainly its taken me to a point where I can isolate a few areas of ignorance and ask questions that may have definite answers, although I realise that this whole are is fraught with controversy. So here are a few questions for the SD reloading collective to ponder, in no particular order:


    1. Mr Lee says that you should always fully resize cases for hunting, thereby negating the fireforming advantage. Why?
    2. Mr Lee says that you should always crimp hunting rounds as they tend to be knocked about a bit. But Ive also been told that its useless. Perspectives on this please?
    3. If you reload a tonne of experimental rounds that dont make the grade, can they be dismantled and the components reused, or do you just need to shoot them all?
    4. The load tables specify that test rifles have barrel lengths in the 23 to 26 range. My rifle has a 20 barrel. What is the likely impact of this and how should I modify loads accordingly?
    5. Where the hell can I find bullets, primers and powders in London, and is the answer nowhere, or in Purdeys, as usual?


    Im pretty sure Im going to follow this up with more questions, but these are a good start.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    glad you got all your stuff hopefully here are some answers

    1. you dont have to i neck size for my 7mm08 but fl sizing is a good place to start and when you get more experience then you can explore neck sizing if you wish

    2.this is debatable ive never crimped a hunting bullet and never had any issues with neck tension or col change due to recoil i dont see what benifit it will give to a bullet with cannulures (a ribbed ring around bullet) i may be wrong though ive been wrong alot latley

    3.you can buy a bullet puller or kinetic hammer to dismantle rounds and reuse components

    4.barrel length is meaningless and will only have a effect on you muzzle velocity

    5. welcome to reloading in 2014 components in short supply however still available in most good gunshops any medium burning powder like allient RL15 VIT n140 and n150 or varget (good luck finding it) will be great even h4350 and imr 4350 are good options. Any cup and core will work great i love sierra gamekings in 140 grain dont drive em at hyper velocity around 2600-2800 fps is perfect. any brass will work as well as any large rifle primer but dont mix primers and brass once you find a safe accurate load stick to those components any change in any componenet you need to work up that load again starting at minium charge weights.

    once you see someone do it you will wonder what all the fuss is about, it is really easy

  3. #3
    Muir also recommends crimping and I have found it increases accuracy on my homeloads (probably because it introduces some consistency in neck seating pressure). As Muir points out all factory rounds are crimped and they do it for a reason. That said many far more experienced reloaders than me don't crimp and get great results. Why not make it one of your load development variables and see if it makes a difference for you.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    Hello everyone!

    First of all, I once again wanted to thank all the generous SD members who have sent me their spare reloading gear free of charge so that I can start down the path towards reloading for my 7mm-08 rifle. Specifically, I’d like to thank Bewsher500, Klenchblaize, Gr1ffer, Hornet6, Baconbuttie, and finally SikaJames who helped me to identify some of the more obscure items. I’ve now established that I have all the equipment that I need apart from a case trimmer, so I need to order one of those.

    Yesterday, I read through all the relevant sections of the Lee reloading guide which I ordered last week. That was actually remarkably short once you strip out some of Mr Lee’s product placement sections. Most of the book is load data. Which is of course a good thing, because it actually looks pretty simple. Certainly it’s taken me to a point where I can isolate a few areas of ignorance and ask questions that may have definite answers, although I realise that this whole are is fraught with controversy. So here are a few questions for the SD reloading collective to ponder, in no particular order:


    1. Mr Lee says that you should always fully resize cases for hunting, thereby negating the fireforming advantage. Why?
    2. Mr Lee says that you should always crimp hunting rounds as they tend to be knocked about a bit. But I’ve also been told that it’s useless. Perspectives on this please?
    3. If you reload a tonne of experimental rounds that don’t make the grade, can they be dismantled and the components reused, or do you just need to shoot them all?
    4. The load tables specify that test rifles have barrel lengths in the 23” to 26” range. My rifle has a 20” barrel. What is the likely impact of this and how should I modify loads accordingly?
    5. Where the hell can I find bullets, primers and powders in London, and is the answer “nowhere, or in Purdey’s”, as usual?


    I’m pretty sure I’m going to follow this up with more questions, but these are a good start.

    Thanks!
    1) You don't have to, but it's good safe advice. I FL resize all hunting rounds and still get very small groups from my 7-08. Rounds chamber effortlessly. No worries. Neck sizing is over-rated when it comes to standard hunting rifles.

    2) Those who tell you that crimping is useless haven't used it... correctly at least. I crimp everything when loaded in identically trimmed cases. It's an old argument on this site; I have many times recorded smaller extreme spread and standard deviation in 20 shot strings over a Chronograph. Between bench and beast, my loaded rounds travel many hard miles. If they were uncrimped they probably would be fine but since they are crimped, there are no evil surprises. Let's just say that hard use is the last of my reasons to crimp unless I'm shooting a heavy recoiling rifle or a revolver.

    3) Sure, you can disassemble the rounds. Unless the pressure is climbing I'll continue to shoot them. Lesson is don't load a tonne of ammo. Start with 20 at minimum and shoot them all, record the results, change one variable, load again.

    4) Stick to the faster burning powders but understand you can't make up much speed. Get a Chronograph and see how you fare; otherwise you're shooting in the dark.

    5) No advice on that!
    ~Muir

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    1) You don't have to, but it's good safe advice. I FL resize all hunting rounds and still get very small groups from my 7-08. Rounds chamber effortlessly. No worries. Neck sizing is over-rated when it comes to standard hunting rifles.

    2) Those who tell you that crimping is useless haven't used it... correctly at least. I crimp everything when loaded in identically trimmed cases. It's an old argument on this site; I have many times recorded smaller extreme spread and standard deviation in 20 shot strings over a Chronograph. Between bench and beast, my loaded rounds travel many hard miles. If they were uncrimped they probably would be fine but since they are crimped, there are no evil surprises. Let's just say that hard use is the last of my reasons to crimp unless I'm shooting a heavy recoiling rifle or a revolver.

    3) Sure, you can disassemble the rounds. Unless the pressure is climbing I'll continue to shoot them. Lesson is don't load a tonne of ammo. Start with 20 at minimum and shoot them all, record the results, change one variable, load again.

    4) Stick to the faster burning powders but understand you can't make up much speed. Get a Chronograph and see how you fare; otherwise you're shooting in the dark.

    5) No advice on that!
    ~Muir

    the jedi has spoken time to revisit crimping i think will have a play at weekend how heavy do you crimp

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten;728565Where the hell can I find [B
    bullets, primers and powders [/B]in London, and is the answer “nowhere, or in Purdey's, as usual?


    Have a day out in Oxford with the other PM's and drop into here once you've established they have what you need:
    http://www.reloadingsolutions.com/index.html

    You can get there by coach and then jump in a cab if too far to walk:
    http://x90.oxfordbus.co.uk/timetable...ndon#timetable


    K

  7. #7
    1. Mr Lee says that you should always fully resize cases for hunting, thereby negating the fireforming advantage. Better feeding without any hang ups. Fireformed rounds might not "go all the way" on the way in and when that grumpy bear's trying to eat your arm off you'll be full of remorse...you get the picture?
    2. Mr Lee says that you should always crimp hunting rounds as they tend to be knocked about a bit. But I’ve also been told that it’s useless. Perspectives on this please? Never crimped any bolt gun rounds in the last 25years but always crimp 357 for the lever gun. Supposed to stop the bullets shifting under recoil or when rammed into the chamber when they impact the feed ramp. You might like to measure some neck tensions just for laughs. I just make sure there's plenty and don't get "issues" but no warranty etc.
    3. If you reload a tonne of experimental rounds that don’t make the grade, can they be dismantled and the components reused, or do you just need to shoot them all? Take Muir's advice and only load a few until you know they're not duff or boring...pulling any more than ten with a kinetic puller isn't good fun. I've a collet puller for 30Cal which came in handy making "Mexican Match" years ago.
    4. The load tables specify that test rifles have barrel lengths in the 23” to 26” range. My rifle has a 20” barrel. What is the likely impact of this and how should I modify loads accordingly? Expect some loss in velocity but chamber pressure will be the same. Better options could be towards the faster (NOT THE FASTEST) burn rate powders suggested for your calibre.
    5. Where the hell can I find bullets, primers and powders in London, and is the answer “nowhere, or in Purdey’s”, as usual? Bisley range? GE Fulton used to have some sort of stock...although could equally have jack. Try the NRA Range Office as they carry supplies as well. Trip up the M1 to Rugby?

  8. #8
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    QUOTE=Pine Marten

    1. Mr Lee says that you should always fully resize cases for hunting, thereby negating the fireforming advantage. Why?

    Full length resizing maintains concentricity of case neck and body better than neck sizing alone, which can actually exacerbate any eccentricity... over repeated loadings... and it is quite feasible that a case jam will eventually occur. Whereas F/L resizing obviates this risk.... or so "they" say. Do you want to risk experiencing a case jam when a follow up shot might be required?

    2. Mr Lee says that you should always crimp hunting rounds as they tend to be knocked about a bit. But I’ve also been told that it’s useless. Perspectives on this please?

    Crimping is fine, if you do it consistently. If you don't do it consistently you are arguably adding another variable. Reloaders generally like to try and rule out variability as much as possible. But it's definitely one of those things that you have to make a choice of your own on.

    3. If you reload a tonne of experimental rounds that don’t make the grade, can they be dismantled and the components reused, or do you just need to shoot them all?

    Yes you can dismantle... but you already know the answer to avoiding this problem... Don't make up a "tonne" of experimental ammo.

    4. The load tables specify that test rifles have barrel lengths in the 23” to 26” range. My rifle has a 20” barrel. What is the likely impact of this and how should I modify loads accordingly?

    With 4-6" less length you will tend to experience a reduction in velocity... that's all. However, your particular choice of cartridge (7mm-08 Rem) has established a track record of good performance in shorter barrels, I doubt if you'll note more than 50-80 fps reduction in muzzle velocity (below book figures) because of barrel length. Incidentally I don't know if it is still the case but some unscrupulous manufacturers, in search of better publicity, used to make a point of testing their ammo in longer than average barrels in places with high ambient temperatures and low air pressure, just to make the stats look good. So, don't be unduly concerned about apparent minor speed deficits.

    5. Where the hell can I find bullets, primers and powders in London, and is the answer “nowhere, or in Purdey’s”, as usual?

    Ah... You may need to acquaint yourself more with the Britain that is outside Landan. Or get to know someone who does already.

  9. #9
    Thanks everyone, useful answers as always!

    Here are my conclusions so far:
    1. I shall fully resize. Don't want to have jam when one of those angry muntjac charges me.
    2. I shall crimp like Mr Lee says.
    3. I shall load ten rounds at a time. Any leftovers will go on running boar practice.
    4. I shall not worry about barrel length but have a look at slightly faster-burning powders.
    5. I shall make a day trip to Oxford. There's a direct train from my station. Easy.

    More questions will come later. I'm off to look at powder burning rate tables.

  10. #10
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    VihtaVuori N140

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