Head/Neck shooting

howa243

Well-Known Member
I know this is an old old topic on SD but I want to look at it in a slightly different way.

In the light of a recent post by MarkH (copied below ) about the distribution of lead particles thoughout the carcass on impact, does anyone think that this will lead to an increase in the demand for head or neck shooting. After all health and saftey rule our lives now. Please forgive if this demonstrates a lack of understanding of either balistics or anatomy.


MarkH said:
njc110381 said:
Is it right that if you cut up the blood shot meat around the wound it can be eaten as long as you freeze it straight away and not hang the carcass? That's assuming you've used a bullet that doesn't deposit too many fragments as it passes through?

Only if you like to eat lead dust

lead.jpg


Mark
 
Seen these type of pics on youtube there is guy doing tests on copper bullets showing lead bullets, expanding bullets, & copper replacements quite shocking when you see it like that ..ugg

Always said through the earhole is the way to go, it's the future... ;)

just wait for it :lol:
 
legaleagle69 said:
Always said through the earhole is the way to go, it's the future... ;)

just wait for it :lol:

Back of the head above the atlas joint is the preferred POA. Rather than the side of the head and the ear. There is a far lesser risk of a deer running off with a shattered jaw from a pulled shot with the former.

That's something they don't teach you when doing your dcs1and 2. :lol: :lol:
 
legaleagle69 said:
Always said through the earhole is the way to go, it's the future... ;)

My wife and I visited a friend in Colorado about ten years ago. On our second night with him and his family, he cooked the most sublime elk backstrap medallions wrapped in smoked bacon. We ate hungrily while he regailed us with tales of his annual hunts in Montana, Wyoming and 'at home' in Colorado. My wife, showing appreciative interest asked: "Where was this one shot?'

His reply: "In the ear, my dear.'

KevinF
 
Back of the head above the atlas joint is the preferred POA. Rather than the side of the head and the ear. There is a far lesser risk of a deer running off with a shattered jaw from a pulled shot with the former.

I took exactly that shot a year ago on a roe doe, pulled the shot a few inches low and right and just about blew the lower jaw off. The doe then ran off into thick cover. Fortunately for both myself and the deer there was alot snow of on the ground I was able to track it 400 mteres from the wood we were in into another woodland where I found it and dispatched it. There was very very little blood trail.

A few inches out with a chest shot and you still have a dead deer, a few of inches out with a head shot and you can have a disaster.
 
Personally I would like never to see the term "head shot"again. It's like saying body shot when you are aiming at the heart. I feel that if we always used the words "brain shot" it would help concentrate the mind on the anatomy of the animal and make you think about what you are shooting through to get to the brain, depending on the angle of approach.

This is in no way a defense of, or support for, "brain shots" just a request for more accurate terminology which might just go a little way towards ensuring cleaner kills.

Have a good Christmas everybody.
 
If you read the description it appears that the entry point is the small circle and the exit point the large circle. It is a long time since I used what German I was taught.

So assuming that the bullet hasn't turned ninety degrees this animal was shot back and the bullet passed through the gut to exit. What the picture is not is of an animal shot side on with a pass through the heart and out the other side.

I would speculate if such a shot would also show such lead fragment dispersion.
 
There are a lot of pictures like this doing the rounds in America/Canada. They are generally publicised by the 'back door antis'. There is a feeling that if lead is banned conservative American sportsmen will stop hunting.
That bullet looks like it has lost an awful lot of its mass, was it a hunting round or a frangible varmint round? There are many bonded lead core bullets out there that retain over 95% of their mass. If that beast had been skinned surely the wound tracks would reveal haemorrhaging all over the meat, yet how often do we see fragment tracks in deer shot with suitable rounds?
I'm not convinced we have to give up the chest shot yet. Also if a neck/brain shot is taken how do you check the articles needed to comply with hygeine reg's at the back of the throat?
 
howa243 said:
I know this is an old old topic on SD but I want to look at it in a slightly different way.

In the light of a recent post by MarkH (copied below ) about the distribution of lead particles thoughout the carcass on impact, does anyone think that this will lead to an increase in the demand for head or neck shooting. After all health and saftey rule our lives now. Please forgive if this demonstrates a lack of understanding of either balistics or anatomy.


MarkH said:
njc110381 said:
Is it right that if you cut up the blood shot meat around the wound it can be eaten as long as you freeze it straight away and not hang the carcass? That's assuming you've used a bullet that doesn't deposit too many fragments as it passes through?

Only if you like to eat lead dust

lead.jpg


Mark

Hi,

it maybe of interest to some although those ex service personell may already know. When a bullet passess through flesh the entry wound expands to about the size of a tennis ball with the shock wave of the entry, as the bullet continues the elasticity of the flesh returns to the normal size hole at the point of entry. As the bullet continues, it creates a vacuum behind it. The bullet then pushes everything in its way in front of it and forces it out of the exit wound as it cannot escape due to the velocity and mushrooming of the expanding bullet head which then errupts carrying bone fragments and flesh.

As the bullet leaves it causes a term called suck and blow, the vacuum drags everything into the bullet track this includes pins and any vegetation caught in the bullet path. Once the bullet exits the vaccum ceases and the air at he point of exit then rushes back in dragging with it dead flesh and anything else in the vacinity of the exit site.

The tracking bullet path will contaminate the flesh around its route due the shock wave.

I was trained in first aid when I was in the police tactical firearms team and went to many seminars including SBS first aid teams and Northern Ireland surgical teams who learned through operating on victims of shootings how bullets react when entering the body.

If anyone has the chance to see how ballistic clay reacts when a bullet enters, it is well worth seeing, it opens your eyes as to how the body reacts to the trauma of a bullet stike

I hope this helps.

Dave
 
Well ill stick my neck out here. :rolleyes: :lol:

Im not a fan of head shots..

Funny enough the carcass presented for the gralloch demonstration on my DSC1 was an attempted head shot and purely by luck the bullet had struck the jaw which then entered the head..

I like neck shots especially being surrounded by Sika..

Terry
 
Bullet would appear to be a T-Mantel Round Point. As below. I don't know if it would have been just a simple "cup and core" (as Teil Mantel is the bullet style not a similar meaning as Accubond or Core Lockt) or bonded to the jacket.

rws_geschosse_tm_zahlen.png
 
Head / neck shots are fantastic when you get it right. Absolute disaster if you feck it up.

They have there place under lets say 70-80m.
 
i only head and neck shoot if possible. using proper bullets like 110gr v max in 270 and light fast ammo in the 234.
there is no problem. i use high power scopes like swro 4-16x50 TDS4

i culled 140 sika hinds and calfs last season ,i lost one hind neck shot at 70yds late one eve ,im sure she was mortaly wounded by the way she went down.but we could not locate her ,the dog saved me on a few.

avoid shots that are close to the face. use proper cals and bullets and know your capabilities.
its not a mocho thing ,its faster ,cleaner, less work in the larder ,less waist.

if i was to body shoot all the sika i cull ,i would loose more and not cull as many.
 
As I'm sure many of you experienced chaps on here already know it really is not a matter of whether you're a head shot kind of a guy or a body shot chap, it is fully depend on the deer that you are culling at the time. Not all situations allow for head shooting, so in my opinion any individual who claims that he always head shoots is purely irresponsible and has very little respect for his quarry.

Merry Christmas.

JT
 
Heart and lungs for me... less margin for error and if the bullet doesn't kill it the brain haemorage caused by hydrostatic shock will ;)
 
Amhuinnsuidhe said:
As I'm sure many of you experienced chaps on here already know it really is not a matter of whether you're a head shot kind of a guy or a body shot chap, it is fully depend on the deer that you are culling at the time. Not all situations allow for head shooting, so in my opinion any individual who claims that he always head shoots is purely irresponsible and has very little respect for his quarry.

Merry Christmas.

JT

please explane .
 
What is there to explain?
If you're trying to achieve a cull in a set time you won't always have time to wait for an animal to be in the absolutely perfect position for a head shot so the engine room is much more straight forward. Deer aren't the most obliging of animals either, when I've had time with deer close by feeding you really have to pick your moment, the head does not tend to stay very still as I'm sure you may have seen. Then it's down to range and whether the deer are spooked or not, it can be a dodgy shot.
Now I'm not saying don't head/neck shoot because I will if the circumstance is right, all I'm trying to put across is that it is not a black or white matter. There'd be some pretty crap looking trophies about and my taxidermist wouldn't be too chuffed if everything I shot was through the bongo!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have seen that Xray else where on another forum, sometime ago.

I believe its an Xray of a coyote shot with a highly frangible bullet and was used as part of the campaign to have lead cored bullets banned in the USA.
 
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