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Thread: Scotland, Yes?

  1. #1

    Scotland, Yes?

    Recent article in the FT makes an interesting read
    Financial Times | Error | Akamai Error

  2. #2
    Pretty much what we have known all along, we should we have been force fed it for long enough,would Scotland be better off on its own? maybe!there are a few unknowns like keeping the pound? probably but at what cost,remaining in the EU can we ? more than likely but may not be as straight forward as the SNP would have us believe.


    But while monitory issues are important the Independence movement is about more than finances for many in Scotland its about the sort of country they want to live in.


    Scotland is vastly different from England ethnically culturally and most of all politically.

    Scotland is a small country 5.3 million approx. 3.7 million living in what was the industrial central belt the majority of whom were l
    Labour voters , and while the Labour party is backing the no vote, a great many labour voters will vote yes not because they believe in the SNP but they do believe in home rule as do several other political party's.

    The SNP is merely a vehicle for Independence if there is a yes vote in 2014 there will be a full scale general election in 2016 and for the first time in over 300 years Scots would have a government that they voted for.

    Being predominately a socialist country its highly unlikely that Scotland will ever have a Conservative government at least not in the foreseeable future, a vastly different situation from the present time.

    Regardless of ones political views and I have no intention of airing mine I am merely stating the facts as I see them anyone that believes in democracy can see that having a government forced upon a country that did not vote for it is going to cause resentment.

    The Independence movement has been growing in strength from its humble beginnings almost a 100 years ago
    a fact not helped by Mrs Thatcher's policy's, closing down of much of Scotland's industry, using Scotland as a testing ground for the hated poll tax a year a head of the rest of the country, more or less finished the Tories for good at least in the central belt of Scotland.

    And at the present time the Westminster government is promising a referendum on Europe, this makes most Scots uncomfortable as the majority would wish to remain in the EU and we could find that we are no longer a member
    again because of a vote by those south of the border.

    Again the South is making a big thing of immigration at the moment both UKIP and the BNP again this makes many
    Scots uncomfortable, immigration is not a big problem up here and we are welcoming to anyone regardless of their Nationality providing they are prepared to work and enter into the community.

    And in recent weeks things like the bedroom tax and Westminster's attempts to stop Scotland's Government from rendering it ineffective, is only persuading people that they need a government that can make its own decisions relevant to Scotland's people, not one hundreds of miles away in Westminster.


    And the no campaign make much of the fact of the Union having lasted for over 300 years what they don't say is that it was a union forced upon the Scots one that like many of todays policy's they had no say in.

    Can Scotland survive as an independent country? definitely. Will Scots be better off? probably not.

    September 2014 will decide if they want to go it alone, whatever the outcome it will be their choice thats democracy.


    Reading through my rantings it looks like a party political broadcast for the SNP that was never my intention , but I do believe in democracy and rights of a people to decide their future.
    Last edited by bogtrotter; 10-02-2014 at 15:47.

  3. #3
    It seems to me the whole go it alone argument is based on the fact the oil will sustain Scotland, with help from whisky and various other small scale industries. This sounds ok perhaps it it were 40 years ago and the oil was owned by the Scottish government. Well its not 40 years ago; and we dont own the oil; we only get tax from it. I've been in the industry for over 20yrs so have seen the changes and the costs invollved to extract it. Its not cheap folks to get a barrel of oil from the ground.
    Our oil is dwindling a lot more than people may realise. Platforms that 10 years ago were pumping out 100,000bbls per day are now struggling to get 10,000 a day. Oh the SNP wax lyrical about new fields coming on line but these are small fields and are now only just viable due to the oil price. If Iran were allowed to open its oil taps the price of oil would crash! If that happened many of our older platforms would have to be shut down as they would cost more to keep going than they would make.
    Whether we like it or not, oil is not our cash cow, it might be for another few years but thats it. Where will we get the money for everything then? We get told Norway are doing it - yes they are - BUT they own their oil and had far more reserves of it than we ever have had. Probably still have more than what we had at the start! Even without the oil perhaps we may still be ok but I'd hate to think what the tax rate would be...
    There may well be people out there that think we should go it alone due to our culture etc. I just cant see it. We still have our culture, just as the rest of the british isles has theres.

    My vote is no if you didn't realise!

  4. #4
    I thought that planned revenues would come from taxing business and generally the rich (that old chestnut) as well as the oil. Does it ever occur to anyone that businesses and persons will simply move away. Also, and someone can correct me on this, I thought all the oil fields were in international waters, so if Scotland adopts self rule, it won't make a blind bit of difference as to ownership of oil.

  5. #5
    While the debate has focused very much on the economics and practicalities of separation i think Bogtrotter is correct to address the democratic deficit and imposition of an administration one has not voted for. He says Scotland is predominantly a socialist country and does not wish to be subject to conservative government. Is it safe to say England is predominantly conservative so would not wish to have a socialist government. With out the Scottish labour members in the house the labour party would be in a very different position. Should decision making in England be determined by people elected in a different country with a vastly different culture and ethnicity to quote Bogtrotter ?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wills View Post
    Also, and someone can correct me on this, I thought all the oil fields were in international waters, so if Scotland adopts self rule, it won't make a blind bit of difference as to ownership of oil.
    They are in what is called an Exclusive Economic Zone

  7. #7
    If Scotland is independent, we will be forever condemned to a socialist regime....either labour or SNP, neither of whom will protect fieldsports/shooting...look at the recent rantings of Rob Gibson on deer numbers. Sadly we need the protection of Westminster, like it or not.

  8. #8
    Pipe dream!
    entire argument is emotional
    i fail to see one single benefit to me or anyone else other than the greasy slobs in the stupid concrete building down the road

    scotland and Scottish parliament couldn't run a piss up in a brewery without running out of money even if it did bring all it's whisky along to the party.
    it is its own worst enemy with 500 years of in fighting and poor governance

    if Scot's truly want a government "that they voted" for they are in for a nasty nasty shock.
    this current crop of wee jimmy "cooncillors" in Hollyrood are a joke, locally, nationally and internationally
    with a track record of mismanagement and a lack of financial and economic acumen that makes my 5 year old daughter look like the Chancellor of the Exchequer I am genuinely stunned when allegedly intelligent people try to argue the financial sense behind it.

    emotions are great.
    but they don't pave the roads or keep people healthy
    Edinburgh has roads like fecking Beirut in the union
    christ knows what they and the rest of this 3rd world country's road network will look like after 1,5 or 10 years of "Inde-Competance"!!!

    i run a business with hopes of another
    neither will be registered in Scotland. Ever!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    Pipe dream!
    entire argument is emotional
    i fail to see one single benefit to me or anyone else other than the greasy slobs in the stupid concrete building down the road

    scotland and Scottish parliament couldn't run a piss up in a brewery without running out of money even if it did bring all it's whisky along to the party.
    it is its own worst enemy with 500 years of in fighting and poor governance

    if Scot's truly want a government "that they voted" for they are in for a nasty nasty shock.
    this current crop of wee jimmy "cooncillors" in Hollyrood are a joke, locally, nationally and internationally
    with a track record of mismanagement and a lack of financial and economic acumen that makes my 5 year old daughter look like the Chancellor of the Exchequer I am genuinely stunned when allegedly intelligent people try to argue the financial sense behind it.

    emotions are great.
    but they don't pave the roads or keep people healthy
    Edinburgh has roads like fecking Beirut in the union
    christ knows what they and the rest of this 3rd world country's road network will look like after 1,5 or 10 years of "Inde-Competance"!!!

    i run a business with hopes of another
    neither will be registered in Scotland. Ever!
    Well said

  10. #10
    Well guys a yes or a no vote? its the working man thats gony get screwed anyway but by feck the country in a GREAT state wae the union !! can it get any worse

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