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Thread: Real world Accuracy?

  1. #1

    Real world Accuracy?

    Following on from the numerous threads on rifle calibre,shot placement etc etc. Its got me wondering just what is the general standard of marksmanship amongst stalkers?

    Its generally excepted that your shots should land within a 4ins circle to be good enough for deer stalking but personally if I shot a four inch group I'd be mortified but like others I have done my level 1 and seen people who for one reason or another just can't hold a group together.

    What do the pro stalkers on this forum see day to day when they take their clients to the target before going on a stalk? Also,seeing as it's a test to see if the guest can humanely take a deer,do people actually fail? Or do you just restrict the range they're allowed to shoot at? It must make for a frustrating day!

    I'd be interested in your thoughts?

    Regards,

    PH.

  2. #2
    Interesting question.
    On the range under ideal conditions, good rest, steady heart rate, no pressure.... I'm never happy with anything less than a 0.5" group at 100yds.
    In the real world with cold hands, out of breath, heart pounding, wobbly sticks, wind and rain, you can't expect the same sort of result as you would on the range. I would however still like to think I could put a bullet into a 2" circle with a cold barrel under real world conditions.... first shot with a cold barrel, afterall that's the only one that matters.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    Interesting question.
    On the range under ideal conditions, good rest, steady heart rate, no pressure.... I'm never happy with anything less than a 0.5" group at 100yds.
    In the real world with cold hands, out of breath, heart pounding, wobbly sticks, wind and rain, you can't expect the same sort of result as you would on the range. I would however still like to think I could put a bullet into a 2" circle with a cold barrel under real world conditions.... first shot with a cold barrel, afterall that's the only one that matters.
    +1

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by prohunter78 View Post
    Following on from the numerous threads on rifle calibre,shot placement etc etc. Its got me wondering just what is the general standard of marksmanship amongst stalkers?

    Its generally excepted that your shots should land within a 4ins circle to be good enough for deer stalking but personally if I shot a four inch group I'd be mortified but like others I have done my level 1 and seen people who for one reason or another just can't hold a group together.

    What do the pro stalkers on this forum see day to day when they take their clients to the target before going on a stalk? Also,seeing as it's a test to see if the guest can humanely take a deer,do people actually fail? Or do you just restrict the range they're allowed to shoot at? It must make for a frustrating day!

    I'd be interested in your thoughts?

    Regards,

    PH.
    You be upset with a four inch target area yes so would I, on a paper target, on a live quarry species is a different ball game , wind ,weather, terrain and a few othe variables can come to mind .

    So four inch gives anyone a good chance of a clean kill ,on a roe deer target area you have close on 7x5 or half a A 4 bit of paper on a red deer you have. Full A4 sheet of paper over the point of impact , but the standred asks you to put you rounds in a 4 inch group which leaves room for error .

    It is all down to practice. In varying conditions will give a good consistent grouping and point of impact .

  5. #5
    I think anything within 2ins should be obtainable out to normal deer stalking ranges. If your wider than that at 100yds you have to wonder what your gonna hit at 200! Buck fever also must play is part. Luckily I never experience it. I'd be much more nervous shooting at a target with a fellow professional breathing down my neck!!

    I'm sure the lads who take clients out must have some stories to tell!

    PH

  6. #6
    on a good day with everything in my favour and if i'm on form I can group 1/2" at 100m but more importantly I know I can consistently group 1" at 100m off a bipod or Hawkins position in the field , once I move to sitting , kneeling or standing the groups get larger accordingly , this is why I include those positions in my practice because I know they are my weakest positions?
    Right where's those stones , I'll start !

  7. #7
    For some reason I find target shooting much more pressure. Maybe as im working to millimetres.
    Try having asthma walking up a fell, heart feels like going to pop, quick puff on inhaler which some have side effects of shakes then take a shot more so off sticks. Thats hard.
    The trouble is any test in a field can and should be bloody good. But until that bullets actually hits the deer no one can honestly be 100% certain that it is going to hit where you intend.
    Last edited by weeman; 17-02-2014 at 13:45.

  8. #8
    Range shooting and real world shooting are completely different disciplines and you cannot compare like for like. Being able to achieve a 2 1/4 inch group at 200m just gives you confidence that your rifle is up to the task, therefore everything else is down to you.
    For example, I checked my zero 4 weeks ago and achieved the above grouping, however, this weekend I shot 5 sika, two of which I was not happy with the shot placement. I necked 3 from 19m to 54m, all prone but in some atrocious weather. No dramas with any of these. Two I shot off sticks at 60m and 122m but hit them both through the liver! They both died quickly and with minimal meat damage but I was not happy at all. What I am trying to say is that I know my rifle is capable of 3/4 inch groups but with wind, rain and a cull to achieve, you cannot always expect to hit exactly where you would wish to, all the time.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    Interesting question.
    On the range under ideal conditions, good rest, steady heart rate, no pressure.... I'm never happy with anything less than a 0.5" group at 100yds.
    In the real world with cold hands, out of breath, heart pounding, wobbly sticks, wind and rain, you can't expect the same sort of result as you would on the range. I would however still like to think I could put a bullet into a 2" circle with a cold barrel under real world conditions.... first shot with a cold barrel, afterall that's the only one that matters.
    I would agree with the above completely.

    I think that people strive for tight, consistent range based groups merely to allow for a great margin of error when all the wind, rain, cold hands and pounding heart are taken into account. After all, a zero'd rifle printing .5" groups gives you a lot of margin to still make that 2" 'real world' group. A zero'd rifle printing 1.5" groups.....less so.

    FN

  10. #10
    Possibly the biggest difference between shooting at a zeroing target Vs a deer, is that the deer is 3D and doesn't have an "x-ring" to confirm precisely where to aim.
    So there is always a certain amount of educated guess work and intuition as to where to aim, this is where I think the majority of the benefit of that 4" target comes in.

    The stat that we will never know is how far the point of aim was missed by, all we have to judge is how far the heart was missed by.

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