American hunting videos (bow hunting).

palmer_mike

Well-Known Member
Hi there, this isn't intended to be yet another bow hunting argument, I just have a query regarding hunting practices which I have seen on online videos.

Moat of these videos have been now hunting, but not all. I don't know if that has any bearing on it at all?

the query being that it seems quite common on these videos to leave a shot animal (if shot in the evening) overnight or for at least a few hours if shot in the day, before attempting to find it. Is this common practice? If so why leave for so long and isn't meat damage a worry if leaving a dead deer for a number of hours before gralloch?
 
idea is so they don't scare them and adrenaline take over and they run off their lease or into brush..... sad part is, they spend more time on that strategy than practicing enough to make the 1st shot count to begin with and drop them there. I get aggravated every time I see "hunting" videos...
 
idea is so they don't scare them and adrenaline take over and they run off their lease or into brush..... sad part is, they spend more time on that strategy than practicing enough to make the 1st shot count to begin with and drop them there. I get aggravated every time I see "hunting" videos...

I get he principle daven an it makes sense. We tend to leave shot deer for a few minutes here to allow them to expire, just wondered why they leave them so long(and weren't they worried about the meat damage)?
 
I have never know them left overnight, but usually 5-10 mins before walking into thick cover.
 
I have never know them left overnight, but usually 5-10 mins before walking into thick cover.
I agree totally Taff. That's why I was wondering about the Long waits on these videos. It's on carbon.tv online lots of very interesting stuff on there. But all a little bit different from the way things are here.
 
As an American Bowhunter I will answer the question with some authority.

1st - much of what you see on the videos is NOT indicative of normal practice. They often will pass on a perfectly acceptable early morning or late evening shot because they do not have enough light for the camera to film. Just like you UK stalkers, we can take perfectly ethical killing shots in that gray light.

2nd- many recoveries on film are during daylight so that they get a good camera shot. The formula most like to follow is some sort of trailing, followed by excited "there he is" statements, then posing with the kill (grip-n-grin shots).

3rd - There are some justifiable real world moments when a bowhunter will wait overnight to trail. An ethical bowhunter does not wait to trail during mild or warm weather because this results in spoilage. However, if a) I make a marginal shot - and it happens for all shooters at some point and b) I have cold enough temps to wait till daylight and c) the weather will not destroy my trail with rain or snow then I may choose to wait. Even then, I run the risk of losing the kill to coyotes.

4th, and lastly - except in a very few states, the use of dogs for trailing or hunting deer is forbidden. Therefore, any trailing must be done by a human visually tracking the deer. If the trailing conditions are poor then sometimes a person might wait until better light. However, as you gain experience quite often the wise bowhunter simply refuses to take those shots in the evening, near heavy cover, with poor weather conditions. When we are young and dumb and the bloodlust it strong we may make poor choices. Digging ourselves out of those poor choices hopefully teach us the value of patience and more ethical shots
 
except in a very few states, the use of dogs for trailing or hunting deer is forbidden.

I can understand the laws on forbidding the hunting of deer with dogs as obviously we have the same law in this country. But just curious as to the reasoning behind not allowing the tracking of deer? Is it just an extension so there are no excuses for the unscrupulous individuals who would try and justify hunting by claiming they were only "tracking" or is there another reason?

Matt
 
As an American Bowhunter I will answer the question with some authority.

1st - much of what you see on the videos is NOT indicative of normal practice. They often will pass on a perfectly acceptable early morning or late evening shot because they do not have enough light for the camera to film. Just like you UK stalkers, we can take perfectly ethical killing shots in that gray light.

2nd- many recoveries on film are during daylight so that they get a good camera shot. The formula most like to follow is some sort of trailing, followed by excited "there he is" statements, then posing with the kill (grip-n-grin shots).

3rd - There are some justifiable real world moments when a bowhunter will wait overnight to trail. An ethical bowhunter does not wait to trail during mild or warm weather because this results in spoilage. However, if a) I make a marginal shot - and it happens for all shooters at some point and b) I have cold enough temps to wait till daylight and c) the weather will not destroy my trail with rain or snow then I may choose to wait. Even then, I run the risk of losing the kill to coyotes.

4th, and lastly - except in a very few states, the use of dogs for trailing or hunting deer is forbidden. Therefore, any trailing must be done by a human visually tracking the deer. If the trailing conditions are poor then sometimes a person might wait until better light. However, as you gain experience quite often the wise bowhunter simply refuses to take those shots in the evening, near heavy cover, with poor weather conditions. When we are young and dumb and the bloodlust it strong we may make poor choices. Digging ourselves out of those poor choices hopefully teach us the value of patience and more ethical shots

That's a nice, down to earth way of thinking... google the texas hunting forum sometime.... Some of them kids aggravate the hell outta me with some of the pics and videos they post and brag about.....
 
I can understand the laws on forbidding the hunting of deer with dogs as obviously we have the same law in this country. But just curious as to the reasoning behind not allowing the tracking of deer? Is it just an extension so there are no excuses for the unscrupulous individuals who would try and justify hunting by claiming they were only "tracking" or is there another reason?

Matt

That is a more difficult question to answer. We have as much or more cultural variation in the US as all of Europe. In some of the Southeastern states Deer with Dogs is quite legal (and I have been on those hunts, enjoyed some, detested others). In some other states dogs are legal for non-cervid game. Then in yet other states tracking dogs are permitted without exception, while in some other states dogs must be registered with the Wildlife Enforcement officers and require a "legal" blessing for each and every use.

Overall - those states that ban or limit the use of dogs tend to do so to make poaching quite clear cut (have a dog and deer hunting paraphernalia = violation).

Those states that do allow unfettered use are actually seeing that use curtailed slowly. Once upon a time deer were run with big dogs and chases could easily go 4-5 miles. That was fine in the days of big landholding estates. Few of these exist now, and those that still hunt this way tend to be viewed as unethical due to starting a chase that they know will cross property to which they do not have permission ("dogs cant read" is the lame excuses). Those that are still hunting with dogs often use smaller dogs which results in shorter and slower chases. I was part of one of these, with the dog owner running beagles, and it was very well contained and executed. That same dog owner came to my aid a year later when I arrowed a very large buck in-between rain storms. As I was climbing down from the high seat to track, the skies opened up, washing away any trail. The dogs found the deer quite easily later that evening when the rain stopped.
 
Thank you for answering that, i guessed it would be something along those lines. I guess it just gets rid of any ambiguity or uncertainty within the law. Unlike the firearms laws in this country which seem to contain as much uncertainty, misinterpretation and ambiguity as possible.
Matt
 
As an American Bowhunter Cootmuerer has done a great job explaining it. There are sometimes you have to let the deer expire without jumping it too soon. Personally I've never had to wait one over night but it does happen.
 
And as a British-based IBEP-accredited Bowhunter, I concur with the earlier responses given by fellow US-based Bowhunters.

Shot placement is the beginning, middle and end.

Loss of meat through souring is a risk, especially in the heat of early season (elk) hunts, but surely better to know you will find your game dead and retrieve most of the venison, than risk pushing an expiring beast, still pumped on adrenaline who will take off for miles, and losing all of the venison as you never found him??
 
Ok all valid points and I understand the need to not rush in too soon. But I have never left a beast longer than 20 mins and never lost one due to pushing it on.

i understand that elk are a lot bigger sought be a different story, but White and black tail deer are equivalent to our larger deer species?

if see are needing to be left for a matter of hours to be sure they have expired is this as a result of the injuries from slightly misplaced bow shots being a lot less lethal than slightly misplaced bullets?
 
Read 'Spot On' by John Jeanneny; it has all the pertinent information for both rifle and bow, difference between bullet and broadheads, how they kill and the difference between the two in following up deer when shots are not perfect
 
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