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Thread: Help needed - advice about permissions in other counties

  1. #1

    Help needed - advice about permissions in other counties

    I'm hoping I can appeal for a little advice here. I'm trying to get a foothold in stalking at the moment, and it seems as though I'm almost there in terms of a permission.

    I live in Norfolk and have a FAC for 22WMR (have had since august), and I get the impression my FEO wouldn't be too against a deer calibre prividing I have a larger permission (my RF one is 30 acres).

    I have an uncle that has a major deer problem in west sussex (roe and fallow eating all his new coppices). This plot is only 12 acres, but he has the ear of the big landowner surrounding (800+ acres) and thinks if put right I will be able to get permission for all that.

    However, the big problem is the west sussex police. Apparently unless I get granted an open ticket (chances slim to none for me I'm thinking) I will have to get the permission of them to shoot anywhere in west sussex, and they will say no due to me not having 20 years+ experince. This is coming from a very experienced stalker who says the WS police are tougher than most.

    However my uncle also 100 acres in yorkshire, and is very happy to give me permission on that.

    So I guess my main questions are:

    1 - Do I really need permission from the permission county police (west sussex) if I am licensed in another county (norfolk) if I have a closed license? I assumed so long as it was cleared for my calibre and I had permission that was it...

    2 - are the yorkshire police less strict than west sussex in terms of what experience and certificates you need to stalk than west sussex?

    3 - How would it work for my firearms department - would they call the relevant department and ask them to check the permission? Or would they just so ok so long as it's passed for my calibre of choice?

    I can't place the cash on a DSC, plus the rifle plus the scope plus the moderator so am really hoping I can get enough experience - bought days, and maybe the odd shadowing or accompanying of a kind local stalker or too - to satisfy my local FEO.

    I would be looking at a deer specific calibre as I don't really intend on foxing. So have been thinking about a 270. Also bearing in mind I plan on miving to australia in about the next 2 years, where I will frequent and possibly urgent need to shoot wild boars, goats, deer maybe more. The licensing would not be a problem (looked into it) so it would come with me.

    I plan on calling my FEO soon, and BASC sooner (when I have joined them after my next pay clears from the new year), but am trying to gathr as much info before hand. So any advice on any points or relevant experience would be highly appreciated. If you make it through my essay that is...
    Thanks
    Harry

  2. #2
    Can't help that far south. Fewer problem up here in Scotland. However save yourself 32 pounda nd join NGO. Same insurance and a lot cheaper.

    Tell your FAO that you are wanting to take up sytalking on a paid day basis and need an open ticket. You cannot shoot deer without a rifle and they theoretically cannot deny you wihout just reason.
    Jim

  3. #3
    Your checking with BASC and that's good their advice is free their help if you need it is not it seems.

    However you ony need a named piece of land and if that land is cleared for centrefires stalking then there should not be a problem. It's the issuing authority your dealing with not the lunitic at Lewis

    Sussex is not tougher just more stupid than most and their boss is a right plonker who has cost the tax payers many tens of thousands of pounds following his own twisted agenda. I believe Brian Ellis is still in charge down there.

    Now another thing is there is ,at the moment, no requirement in law to have a reconised qualification despite all the efforts of BDS, BASC (who are now backing away from it) and the Deer training company who introduced the DSC etc. They're only in it to make money from what I can see . It also plays to the governments holy grail ot training and bits of often worthless bits of paper. Germany has more accidents in Stalking than we do and yet have strict training just goes to show how well common sense works here does it not?

    Oh I used to live just across the border in Surrey but stalked in Sussex and still have permission there but it's difficult to get too right now the way things are here.

    Good luck with it.

  4. #4
    From what I can gather from your post, I believe you are asking if you can shoot in one county with a certificate, ( conditioned) issued in another, If you have permission (written) to shoot over a particular piece of ground then that is the end of it.

  5. #5
    Jim - do you think they would grant an open ticket to someone with as little experience as me? And surely they'd want some sort of guarantee I'd be going on a certain number of stalks? Otherwise anyone could have a deer rifle even with no permissions...

    Also, I plan on using BASC's help if anyone in the authorities is 'unfair' along the rocky road to my variation. Do NGO give help?

    Brithunter - so BASC charge for helping people with licensing issues? That's low, I thought their (expensive) membership would cover it... So do you know if I would need to clear with them if I were shooting with them even if I was legal in norfolk? Assuming the land was cleared for said cal. that is. Basically, if I got granted this closed variation, based could lewis (yep I've heard they're the bad ones) do anything legally binding to stop me?

    Also, could my FEO ultimately not grant my variation on my lack of DSC as some say. You say it's not legal, but what if the FEO wants it? And could BASC help me here?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by finnbear270
    From what I can gather from your post, I believe you are asking if you can shoot in one county with a certificate, ( conditioned) issued in another, If you have permission (written) to shoot over a particular piece of ground then that is the end of it.
    Hmm, this is what I wanted to here - so long as the ground is cleared, they can't stop me then? No matter what they think of my suitability? And how will my department assess the land like they did on my RF one here in norfolk? Or would they not bother because of the size?

  7. #7
    There are some hooray henrys out there who have shot for years without an iota of common sense, The FAO is there to assess your mental ability to be safe with a fire arm, My first ticket was open. OK ex army, ex keeper, ex stalker but I had been away for nearly thirty years. To be honest the FAO should be a RO. He/she should take you to a range and assess your handling skills, not necessarily shooting skills but safety skills. Without the gun you cannot practice, without practice you cannot improve. To say an applicant has to get DSC L1 is cart before horse. Let the FAO know you want an open ticket. He has to justify why he has not issued you with one.
    Jim

  8. #8

    Re: Help needed - advice about permissions in other counties

    Quote Originally Posted by harrygrey382
    However, the big problem is the west sussex police. Apparently unless I get granted an open ticket (chances slim to none for me I'm thinking) I will have to get the permission of them to shoot anywhere in west sussex, and they will say no due to me not having 20 years+ experince. This is coming from a very experienced stalker who says the WS police are tougher than most.
    Harry, I'd say the bigger problem is the advice you're receiving from a 'very experienced stalker".

    It's the Firearms Department of the Constabulary where you live that will make decisions on the issuing and conditioning of your FAC - not the one where you may have a piece of land located over which you have permission to shoot.

    Get all your permissions together - Yorkshire and WS - and make sure they contain information about the quarry you are likely to encounter there (tip: get the owner to specify deer plus "and any other lawful quarry"), then put them in to your local FA dept with the application for whatever deer legal calibre you require and on the form enter in the relevant section which asks for details of the quarry you intend to use it on "deer and any other lawful quarry".

    You can then ask that the FLO to give you the 'new' condition advised by ACPO that allows use of the rifle on....... you've guessed it ....... 'deer and any other lawful quarry'! This will permit you to use your new rifle on deer, fox, vermin, boar, goats etc. etc. - saves a lot of hassle down the line.

    If they do restrict you to approved areas of land for your calibre (i.e. territorial restrictions and not an open cert) and you don't have suitable land/quarry within your own Force area then, and only then, will the police force for the area where the land is located be consulted to establish whether that land is 'cleared' for the nominated calibre - it will not relate to your experience or lack of it. Of course the whole thing is a farce because I, as an 'open' FAC holder can legally shoot my .308 over land which your local plod might have decided is not suitable for even .22RF!!!!!

    Good luck and check out the 'Legal Issues' section of the forum for more FAC fun and games!

  9. #9
    Thanks Orion, that is a meaty reply!

    I made a few calls today and come out pleased - BASC and WS police say what you say. And BASC say it sounds like I should get the variation. In the end... So the old stalker (a pro for 20 years he says) was feeding me porkies, maybe he's just got the wrong idea from Lewes.

    So I will do as you say, and I'd also seen that phrase about any other quarry about here recently so in it will go!

    Only thing I'm trying to rectify now is my lack of experience... First thing my FEO will say is what is your stalking time? I will have to say none so far Dusk Till Dawn says he will take me out, but he is quite busy, and the one time I had the chance I'd moved house so he didn't have my number! and lee6.5 said I could shadow, but I imagine he's very busy too.

    So should I book a stalk or two? Euston do them for I think 80. I'm also very happy to do a bit of labour/tree work as a trade with anyone, but I guess I should post all this in the relevant section.

    It would be nice to get it sorted before the end of the doe season, but I guess I can see it taking a while to pan out. While I'm at it, I may have settled on a 270, any reason why not? This is going in the fact there are roe and fallow in WS, should be in yorkshire, and Reds here too (if/when I get a local permission). Plus bought days in sctoland eventually.

  10. #10
    Hi Harry
    I will take you out before the end of the Doe season, i did not call you over the xmas time as you said you would not have been able to come, I went out a few time in the last two weeks and have managed to shoot 5 Roe Doe's,
    I did take another person once who lives near to you and gave him the chance to stalk and shoot one of the Roe.
    I have been talking to another Farmer close to my other permission and have got 400 acres to shoot Fox on so i will be asking him about the deer as i will be doing him a favour.
    I will talk with you next time you come in and sort something out.
    Regards
    Paul

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