Help needed with case chambering problems

Mutley

Well-Known Member
Reloading 6.5x47L, case length 1.840", OAL 2.631" at the Ogive 2.096". All Full length resized, CCI primer, 38.0gr N140, SAAMI spec chamber. Forster Bench Rest Die's. RCBS Rockchucker Supreme press. I think that covers the techy bits.

Here's the rub:

New cases fired with no feeding problems or bolt closing problems at all.
Once fired I started to notice a few where the bolt was anything from slightly tight to tight,
Twice fired, most were very tight to impossible to close the bolt
Between each firing they were all FL resized.

I then tried some already FL resized cases, which again a lot were tight, I resized them again and then just tried chambering the cases to discount the bullet seating depth being a problem. No change they were still tight to very tight.
To discount problems with the press I put the Die in my old JR3 press and again resized and again no difference. If the case it tight to start, the resizing makes no difference.

All the unfired cases I have whatever length chamber effortlessly, even when loaded to above specs.

One observation that may or may not be of significance. I use an L E Wilson trimmer and it is superb at its job, very accurate. I have noticed however that a new unfired case sits much further into the shell holder than a once fired FL resized one.

I hope this makes some sense as I am not great on the keyboard, I think I have covered most things, so, reloading Gents and Ladies (if present) of many years experience, can I please have your thoughts on this problem, Chamber, Die or something else ??

Cheers :D
 
Try sizing a case with the sizing button present and try it in your chamber.
Its possible that as the sizing button is exiting the neck, it is dragging the neck slightly and stretching the shoulder.

Ian.
 
Try sizing a case with the sizing button present and try it in your chamber.
Its possible that as the sizing button is exiting the neck, it is dragging the neck slightly and stretching the shoulder.

Ian.
I think Ian means 'without' the neck expander button present i.e. remove it ? I was discussing expander buttons with enfieldspares the other day and he advised that dipping the case mouth in graphite could remedy excessive drag on the neck by the expander button.
 
I have seen this problem with a friend using the cartridge & he ended up backing out the F/L die a little..seemed as though the shoulder was being pushed out of spec very slightly causing the chambering issue. Hope this helps. ATB
 
I think Ian means 'without' the neck expander button present i.e. remove it ? I was discussing expander buttons with enfieldspares the other day and he advised that dipping the case mouth in graphite could remedy excessive drag on the neck by the expander button.

No worries, I understood what Ian meant anyway, I have just tried it but it made no difference at all. Baffling stuff
 
I have seen this problem with a friend using the cartridge & he ended up backing out the F/L die a little..seemed as though the shoulder was being pushed out of spec very slightly causing the chambering issue. Hope this helps. ATB

I've seen this myself in a set of 6.5x55 dies.~Muir
 
I have seen this problem with a friend using the cartridge & he ended up backing out the F/L die a little..seemed as though the shoulder was being pushed out of spec very slightly causing the chambering issue. Hope this helps. ATB

Makes sense, I guess that would mean that the non chambering ones are a loss. Surely that's a fault with the Die, I have set it up exactly as specified in the instructions, either way it brings things to a halt for now, no point ruining any more.
 
Mutley,
Just to eliminate a set of variables, have you tried a fired case in the chamber before sizing?. That is, put an empty back in the chamber. If it goes in and out ok then it's not the chamber.
The other thing to try is to take a resized case - one that is tight in the chamber and cover it all over with black marker. Put that into the chamber and note where the blackening has rubbed off. This may indicate where the problem lies.
The suggestion made by Deeango in Post #4 could be the answer and this might be indicated by the black marker method as above.
Whatever you do, please let us know the outcome.
Peter
 
Mutley,
Just to eliminate a set of variables, have you tried a fired case in the chamber before sizing?. That is, put an empty back in the chamber. If it goes in and out ok then it's not the chamber.
The other thing to try is to take a resized case - one that is tight in the chamber and cover it all over with black marker. Put that into the chamber and note where the blackening has rubbed off. This may indicate where the problem lies.
The suggestion made by Deeango in Post #4 could be the answer and this might be indicated by the black marker method as above.
Whatever you do, please let us know the outcome.
Peter

I think this is a wholly pointless exercise. IMHO a new case fired in a given chamber will re-chamber in the same rifle.

I suggest checking the case OAL after the first (futile) resizing. If the OAL isn't excessive, then it's the Forster Dies (shock horror for their fans) so change your dies to Redding, or another make . It sounds like the diameter of the base section isn't being squeezed down sufficiently. If the shoulder isn't being resized enough (backing out the die can only make this effect more pronounced ......???!) then the reloaded round will seize up much earlier during it's partial travel.

Excessive drag on the neck may lengthen the neck, but shouldn't change the acuteness of the shoulder angle enough to thwart the camming action of a bolt action to chamber the case successfully.:rolleyes:

This is a very new calibre. I think there are bound to be dimensional differences between different brands of reloading dies.
 
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Forster dies are supposed, as you know, to be screwed down until they contact the shellholder so as to full length size. They can then be fine tuned by backing them off slightly until the shoulder is just set back that small amount so that you have minimal headspace.

I agree with PETER L abount trying to re-chamber a once fired case that has not been sized. I don't think it is pointless as it may show up a chamber that has not been drilled, or has become so, "true". In other words with a bulge in one orientation.

Oddly, too, as MUIR says, backing OUT the sizing die may also solve the problem. In that if the chamber has been cut long than with the sizer die screwed right down hard against the shellholder it may in fact make the shoulder wider.

But you have to eliminate all possibilities and trying a fired case, as PETER L suggests, will at least show that the chamber is cut "true" and/or that you don't have a bulge in one side of it. So try that unfired case at 6, and 12, o'clock orientations.

If you have engineer's blue it may help to try chambering a sized case and see if that blue is rubbed off anywhere.
 
I do hope that the foster dies are not at fault as i'v just got the same set for my new 6.5x47 now on the way to being built, i found out the expander ball if not all the way down crushes the case neck down ahhh at the price of this case it was't wot i wished to see, anyway the dummy rounds are made so i'll see next week when the barrel is fitted if i'v cocked up! i have never loaded for a wildcat before and i still am trying to find any book load data from powder Co's- like R15. for 6.5x47Lap
 
I had a similar problem with my 308. Turns out the shell holder was a different thickness to rcbs 1 which I bought to remedy the problem. I had a lee holder and rcbs dies. Up until then I had lee dies with the lee holder.


Nutty
 

a once fired case that fit before sizing and doesnt fit after sizing is down to the die or its set up

post some pics of the fireformed (unsized) next to one of your resized ones for comparison
also uf you are going to get busy with the engineers die do it before resizing as well
you may find some interesting characteristics of your die that no-one will be able to comment on

get you calipers out and start measuring aspects of fireformed vs resized

the shell holder seating you describe would worry me. can you elaborate?
new brass should not differ significantly from fired brass around the case head area to see a difference in shell holder seating
 
I have seen this problem with a friend using the cartridge & he ended up backing out the F/L die a little..seemed as though the shoulder was being pushed out of spec very slightly causing the chambering issue. Hope this helps. ATB

My friend was using Redding 6.5x47Lap. dies. He'd set his dies per instructions to resize once fired Lapua cases. The resized cases were a problem on three counts.

1. His is a custom chamber & the new Lapua cases are already at max length so will work 1st time fired without issue. But then when fired & resized the brass will have grown.

2. He hadn't trimmed his Lapua brass after firing & resizing so the neck was overlong and needed trimming. He hadn't expected that after one firing of new brass.

3. The die was set too far down so pushing the shoulder out of spec.

He trimmed his cases back by .005" adjusted his resizing die (backed it out) and all was hunky dory.
The cases you have that wont chamber may not be 'lost' - it's possible they will resize correctly. ATB
 
Can you tell me who makes a case trimmer like the lee ones or did he use a universal trimmer .
:tiphat:
 
I do hope that the foster dies are not at fault as i'v just got the same set for my new 6.5x47 now on the way to being built, i found out the expander ball if not all the way down crushes the case neck down ahhh at the price of this case it was't wot i wished to see, anyway the dummy rounds are made so i'll see next week when the barrel is fitted if i'v cocked up! i have never loaded for a wildcat before and i still am trying to find any book load data from powder Co's- like R15. for 6.5x47Lap

6.5 x 47 Lapua is CIP registered, so it's not a wild cat. http://www.lapua.com/en/products/sport-shooting/centerfire-rifle/17 Regards JCS
 
hi JB ,
feller to me this little speed pill is, i can find only lapua data with vit powder no other !, its dos't seem to fully out there on all the data sheets as yet if can help please do so . i have loaded and had from cals from .50 to hornet and lots in between but am finding it real hard to obtain published data for other powders out there , the 6.5 grendel has been out for some time but only last year did a reloading data book come out . that's all i am saying or requesting some data on lots of powders that has some backing from the powder Co's even norma have a bullet for it but no data for the 6.5 ,130 diamond line vld.?
:tiphat:
 
I only use wilson neck dies, havent had any problems and have only just trimmed some cases 0.0050 after 5 firings, its hardly known for being a case stretcher...
 
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