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Thread: Nobel Magnum 6 powder

  1. #1

    Nobel Magnum 6 powder

    Hello:

    I no longer load shotshells and still have a few pounds of Nobel Magnum 6 kicking around, but don't have an old Nobel loading manual, so I thought I would ask here about loads, especially for cast bullets, for .298 Minex (80 gr. RNFPPB), .300 Rook (80 gr. RNPB), .30 W.C.F. (170 gr. RNFPPB), .303 British (~206 gr. BRTORNFPGC), .32-20 (100 gr. RNFPPB) & .38 Special (158 gr. RNPB).

    I have always heard the burn rate was similar to Herco / W540. If anyone can confirm this, I would appreciate it.

    BTW, the powder has always been stored in a cool, temperature controlled, 55% RH dark area and does not appear to be decomposing.

    I have been using 2.4 grains (.3cc) in my .300 Rook (78 gr. RNPB), but it shows very mild pressure, with a lot of vertical, as well as 5.5 grains (.7cc) in my .30 W.C.F. carbine behind a 173 grain RNFPGC (Lyman 31141), again very mild loads with some vertical.

    Thanks for the bandwidth!

  2. #2
    I have a Nobel reloading manual jimhar and I will have a look later today to see if there is any information in it that may be useful to you but at the moment the powder that you mention isn't ringing any bells.

    Added
    I have just looked and the only Nobel powders that I have reloading data for are;
    Rifle No. 0, Rifle No. 1, Rifle No. 2, Rifle No. 3.
    Revolver No.1, Revolver No.2, Revolver No.3.
    Shotgun No. 80, Shotgun No. 82, with some data for Shotgun No 78.
    Last edited by 8x57; 18-03-2014 at 07:25.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by jimhar View Post
    it shows very mild pressure, with a lot of vertical,very mild loads with some vertical.
    What do the two phrases above mean? I've never heard that terminology before.
    You can't say muntjac without saying, Mmmmmm.

  4. #4
    I can find no mention of Nobel Magnum 6 anywhere other than a couple of mentions on the internet from Canada presumably by you jimhar, and a mention that it was a surplus powder distributed by Higgins powders in Ontario. Why don't you try contacting them for information. My guess is that this powder was probably better known by another name.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  5. #5
    Actually, those posts were not mine.

    The original owner of Ammomart (who distributed the powder) died about 10-15 years ago. His grand-nephew now operates Higginson Powders, but only has a very limited amount of non-tested data for Nobel Magnum 6, which was sourced in the 80's & 90's from Nobel in Scotland before they closed. The data was in 357 Mag (7.2 gr. w/ 190 gr. cast w/w (or 180 gr. Silh.) bullet,RWS SR primers, 950 fps - Safe load) & 44 Magnum (9.7 gr. w/ 250 gr. cast w/w bullet, Win LP primer, 1,100 fps - Safe - very accurate). The only other comment was pressure ok, do not exceed, no velocity specs.

    Later data from the same company showed the following data: 357 Magnum (6.5-6.7 gr. w/ 158 gr. RN bullet), 40 S&W (4 gr. w/ 180 gr. TC bullet) & 44 Magnum (10.0 gr. w/ 240 SWC).

    In some of his sales ads he mentions Magnum 6 - Nobel Shotgun (Blue Dot Type), in others he mentions Magnum 6 - Nobel Shotgun (Herco Type).

    The paper lists 4 Nobel Shotgun Powders: 1 (Fastest burning, similar to Red Dot, green identifier), 2 (Medium load, Unique type, Yellow identifier), 4 (For heavy field and magnum loads- Herco equivalent - 12 gau. 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 oz. loads) , & 6 (For Magnum loads).

    I've heard in a number of places that these correspond to the Herter's line of powders (made by Nobel & bought from Herter's Trustee in Bankruptcy along with all of their brass) 160, 162, 164 & 169.

    Further down is a table that lists the Nobel name & the Higginson name.
    Nobel Rifle 0 = Higginson / Ammomart 104
    Nobel Rifle 1 = Higginson / Ammomart 103
    Nobel Pistol 3 = Higginson / Ammomart 16
    Nobel Shotgun 78 = Higginson / Ammomart 1
    Nobel Shotgun 82 = Higginson / Ammomart 2

    The only shotgun loads shown for Magnum 6 are (all with fiber wads):

    12 gau. 1 7/8 33.5 gr. 1217 fps
    16 1 oz. 29.5 gr. 1300 fps
    16 1 1/8 oz. 31.5 gr. 1326 fpd
    20 gau. 1 oz. 26 gr. 1300 fps
    28 gau. 9/16 oz. 23.0 gr. 1326 fps.



    I'm quite sure are right about this powder being better known under another name, but that name is what I am after.


    Re: mild pressure with vertical

    mild pressure signs:
    sooty case, evidence of the brass case not expanding to seal the combustion chamber, rounded primers, mild recoil

    vertical:
    all shots in a string / group are in a vertical line above &/or below your point of aim. This is usually the result of not having found an accuracy node, so the barrel harmonics are all wonky, ie the barrel is whipping at the muzzle end instead of at the breech end. (Google OCW)

  6. #6
    Jimhar none of the shotgun loads tally at all with the data in my Nobel reloading manual, in fact it doesn't list such heavy loads at all.
    The heaviest 12 bore loads that are listed are only 11/4 oz, and 1oz for 16 bore. The heaviest 20 bore load is for 3/4 oz and 28 bore isn't mentioned at all.

    The closest loads that come anywhere near are those for cast bullets in .357 and .44mag and they would suggest that it may relate to Revolver number 2 but even that is only a very rough match.
    I am not sure when my Nobel reloading book was printed but I think it was the very last edition and possibly printed in 1983 if I am translating the print reference number correctly.

    The manual says that they only produced 3 shotgun powders at the time;
    NGSP 78 the fastest of the Nobel shotgun range. Had green identifier granules.
    NGSP 80 mid range speed wise of the Nobel shotgun powders. Had blue identifier granules.
    NGSP 82 the slowest of the Nobel shotgun range. Had yellow identifier granules.

    I seem to recall that Shotgun 80 and 82 replaced earlier powders named shotgun 60 and 62 or was it 70 and 72?
    Last edited by 8x57; 18-03-2014 at 16:35.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  7. #7
    Believe it or not, I think we are making progress.

    QUOTE>>>
    NGSP 78 the fastest of the Nobel shotgun range. Had green identifier granules.
    NGSP 80 mid range speed wise of the Nobel shotgun powders. Had blue identifier granules.
    NGSP 82 the slowest of the Nobel shotgun range. Had yellow identifier granules.
    <<<ENDQUOTE

    We know, based on Ammomart's sales sheets I have in my possession that their powders were made by Nobel in Glasgow Scotland.
    This information is also on their sheet:

    We carry 4 Nobel Shotgun Powders: 1 (Fastest burning, similar to Red Dot, green identifier), 2 (Medium load, Unique type, Yellow identifier), 4 (For heavy field and magnum loads- Herco equivalent - 12 gau. 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 oz. loads) , & 6 (For Magnum loads).

    Further down that same sheet is a table that lists the Nobel name & the Higginson name.
    Nobel Shotgun 78 = Higginson / Ammomart 1
    Nobel Shotgun 82 = Higginson / Ammomart 2

    Therefore, in my mind, I am quite sure that:

    Ammomart 1 powder = NGSP 78, based on:
    Ammomart saying it is, it was produced by Nobel & has green identifiers in it.

    Ammomart 2 powder = NGSP 82, based on:
    Ammomart saying it is, it was produced by Nobel & has yellow identifiers in it.

    Now we have to figure out what Ammomart powder 4 & 6 are. Perhaps in an earlier or different market (Australia?) Nobel loading manual?

    I believe they are one (well, actually two as we are talking about Ammomart 4 & Ammomart 6 powders) of these:
    NGSP 84, 86 & 89 which also appear on this burnrate list:

    w w w.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

    Do those powders appear in your manual?

  8. #8
    Sorry but only the powders that I have already mentioned appear in the manual, and as I said earlier the 80 and 82 powders were replacements for earlier powders that were mentioned in previous reloading manuals that unfortunately I don't have a copy of.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

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