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Thread: Question about shooting followers

  1. #1

    Question about shooting followers

    Watching the shooting show last night got me thinking about shooting followers. (This is not a thread slagging off the show as I genuinely am not sure what the norm is!)

    The stalker was out at the end of his Doe cull to try and get a couple last minute before season end.
    He came across a doe, with two followers. One definitely a buck I'm not sure about the other and proceeded to shoot them both, while he left the adult Doe alone as she never presented a shot, other than for the camera.

    Now my query?

    Is it not a bit late in the season to class a Roe buck that is almost a year old a follower? Especially when it's only a few days until the buck season when he could shoot it anyway.

    As a noob I would have thought the doe would have been priority as part of a cull plan?

    Is there a certain time (ethically or best practice) that you cannot or do not shoot bucks out of season as followers?

    The whole follower thing confuses me a bit if I'm honest and I need to get my head round it for next season, when I'm going to be managing the Roe more for the landowner,

    Cheers

    Stratts
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  2. #2
    As regards the scenario on the programme it may have depended on what his full intentions were. Followers and doe I would have thought. I can see where you are coming from. If he had taken the doe only as part of the doe cull the followers would no doubt have survived. They are not totally dependant although they would have stayed with the doe for at least another month. But if it was his intention to take all three there is nothing illegal in taking the buck follower as he is not yet a year old but many would have taken the doe first and then the followers as there is more chance they would have hung around. Sometimes you just have to go with the best that is presented. If this particular doe did not present a safe shot after having culled the followers you just have to live with it. Leaving doe culls to the last minute is not a good idea but sometimes needs must. A bit more planning and time and you can leave the not perfect circumstance to another day.

  3. #3
    I've not seen the show in question but in England and Wales the legislation in question is:

    A person shall not be guilty of an offence of any act done for the purpose of preventing the suffering of an injured or diseased deer. A person shall not be guilty of an offence taking or killing a deer that he reasonably believes
    1. has been deprived in any way (other than by an unlawful taking or killing by that person) of a female deer on which it was dependent; or
    2. is about to be deprived, by death from disease or a lawful taking or killing, of a female deer on which it is dependent.
    And in Scotland:

    Section 25 of the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 exempts individuals from being guilty of any offences involving the taking or killing of deer at any time if it is done for the purpose of preventing suffering by:

    an injured or diseased deer; or
    by any deer calf, fawn or kid deprived, or about to be deprived, of its mother, or
    a deer which is starving and which has no reasonable chance of recovering.
    1) 'Dependent' isn't defined. By now it should be weened but will still be benefiting from its mother's guidance and protection
    2) To the letter of the law, the buck follower should only have been taken if the intention had also been to take the doe as well

  4. #4
    In Scotland under the WANE act there is now a general license (reviewed yearly) which currently allows you take male deer all year round if they are on enclosed land and you are registered as fit & competent on the SNH register.

    Mulac

  5. #5
    Another one of life's grey areas this one...

    I've always been led to believe that the idea behind shooting followers was so as not to leave dependent young... The follower in this case would be rejected by it's mother in the next month or so and would more than likely survive on it's own. The key word is 'dependent' but as the Doe wasn't shot I'd say the young buck was shot unlawfully.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  6. #6
    if i was stalking the ground and was needing the numbers i would shoot all 3 and wouldnt worry about it , if i wasnt under pressure i would shoot the doe kid and leave the mother and buck BUT if the buck was weak and smaller that the doe kid i would shoot that first !
    Last edited by leec6.5; 01-04-2014 at 12:05.

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  7. #7

  8. #8
    As you say Si what is dependent. I have no doubt had the doe been culled the followers may well have survived but it is not only feeding that the youngsters depend on their mothers for. During the year they spend with their mothers they are learning life skills. What is written in law cannot always be transferred into a practical situation. This stalker no doubt had the intention of culling followers and doe. He culls the followers but due to whatever reason cannot safely cull the doe. Should he attempt a possible unsafe shot or should he leave it. If I could not take the doe first I would have left it but that is my opinion.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by csl View Post
    I've not seen the show in question but in England and Wales the legislation in question is:



    And in Scotland:



    1) 'Dependent' isn't defined. By now it should be weened but will still be benefiting from its mother's guidance and protection
    2) To the letter of the law, the buck follower should only have been taken if the intention had also been to take the doe as well
    The way it came across in the programme was (I think) that he was intending to take the Doe as well, but she didn't stick around long enough after shooting the other two, which is not really surprising!!

    It was a good piece and he did explain that due to the estate shoot he only gets a short time to perform the cull, hence having to shoot late into the Doe season.

    It may help to watch it?

    Last edited by stratts; 01-04-2014 at 12:17. Reason: Vid added
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by leec6.5 View Post
    if i was stalking the ground and was needing the numbers i would shoot all 3 and wouldnt worry about it , if i wasnt under pressure i would shoot the doe kid and leave the mother and buck BUT if the buck was weak and smaller that the doe kid i would shoot that first !
    Ah now, you see I would do the opposite.... shoot the doe (mother) then the doe kid and leave the young buck to grow a decent rack
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

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