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Thread: DSc 2 - Witnessed stalks - Advise please

  1. #1

    DSc 2 - Witnessed stalks - Advise please

    I would appreciate any comments, especially from Approved Witnesses on the following.

    I recently had 4 stalks as part of DSc 2 and during these I lifted my rifle to one muntjac buck only, before he quickly disappeared. During the 4 outings I was asked lots if questions and told by the AW that he was very happy with everything I did, but because there was no cull he could not sign off any section of my portfolio. The trip cost me 700 including fees, fuel , hotel, tip etc.

    Discussing it with a friend after the trip he said that the AW could have signed off those elements that were witnessed and covered by questioning (after all DSc accepts that not all competences may be covered in an outing e.g. Follow up of deer) and that the cull / gralloch element could have been covered on a desperate day (e.g.if deer shot from high seat ).

    I would appreciate any views on the above.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Pointer View Post
    I would appreciate any comments, especially from Approved Witnesses on the following.

    I recently had 4 stalks as part of DSc 2 and during these I lifted my rifle to one muntjac buck only, before he quickly disappeared. During the 4 outings I was asked lots if questions and told by the AW that he was very happy with everything I did, but because there was no cull he could not sign off any section of my portfolio. The trip cost me 700 including fees, fuel , hotel, tip etc.

    Discussing it with a friend after the trip he said that the AW could have signed off those elements that were witnessed and covered by questioning (after all DSc accepts that not all competences may be covered in an outing e.g. Follow up of deer) and that the cull / gralloch element could have been covered on a desperate day (e.g.if deer shot from high seat ).

    I would appreciate any views on the above.

    Thanks
    Your friend is correct. You will need to ask your AW why some of the other PCs could not be signed off. If you are still not happy with the answer you need to get in contact with your assessment center or an assessor to talk it through with them. The SD is probably not the best place to sort it out! Good luck with it all.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry270 View Post
    Your friend is correct. You will need to ask your AW why some of the other PCs could not be signed off. If you are still not happy with the answer you need to get in contact with your assessment center or an assessor to talk it through with them. The SD is probably not the best place to sort it out! Good luck with it all.
    Thanks for the response. AW said that unless the stalk ended in a cull he could not sign off any of my competences. I did politely question this but was told that that was the way it is done.

    I have no intention of identifying the AW, but just thought that SW would be the best place to receive a response, especially from those that carry out AW. I trust this thread will also help other members doing DSc 2.

    Many thanks to those that have sent me PMs, I appreciate the advise.

  4. #4
    As TB270 has said.

    Keeping things in general terms as opposed to direct comment on your situation.

    Each PC stands 'alone'. If you complete that PC before an AW or where appropriate answer questions on that PC satisfactorily then they may be signed off. If an AW refuses to sign off any PC he must be able to tell you in very clear terms why. Essentially your friend appears correct.

    In such a situation, I would contact the AW and ask for the relevant PCs to be signed and if he/ she feels unable to do so, then for them to provide written confirm as to his/ her position on the matter.

    AW's will be working to a named Centre - BDS, BASC, FC etc - if you have a dispute with an AW and cannot amicably resolve it, you should raise the matter with their Centre. Equally via your named Assessor. Systems are in place to look at such issues.
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  5. #5
    Where is the AW based? Maybe share your experience so others can avoid using AW who may abuse their position for financial gain, as I suspect is the case here.

  6. #6
    I am not sure why your AW was unable to fill in any of your PC's but looking forward you still have to complete your 3 witnessed culls anyway. Appreciating that things have got off to a bad start I suggest that you cut your losses with the current arrangements and contact Mike at Jelen to see if he can assist.

    atb Tim

  7. #7
    I think this part of the Level 2 should get a good looking over because as an AW I do not write up a ICR unless it has a deer safely on the ground. I do not charge for Witnessing and they are told before hand. I have do a few in the passed and they become a shame. Can you imagine sitting your driving test and some one say well you crashed in to the round about but its ok you can do roundabouts next time. I do sympathise with you Pointer but as long as you new the prise and was told no cull no write up then what's the problem .Like said you will still need to demonstrate most PC,S by the sound of it.
    While I don't agree with doing it in a deer park I would phone the BDS and get it done. Sometimes enough is enough.
    Last edited by 6pointer; 06-05-2014 at 06:48.

  8. #8
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    You might perhaps want to direct the AW to page 5 of the latest edition of the Witness Handbook (May 2014):

    While it is preferable that all of the PCs on one ICR are completed on the same stalking outing using the same animal, this may not always be possible, so ICRs may be completed cumulatively. If, on an individual outing, a particular PC is not completed, then evidence from further outings can be included. For instance, if you have been on a witnessed stalking outing and failed to shoot a deer, you will probably still have completed a number of PCs which will count as evidence. The remaining PCs (including cull deer) can then be accomplished on a subsequent occasion.
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  9. #9
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    Can you imagine sitting your driving test and some one say well you crashed in to the round about but its ok you can do roundabouts next time. I do sympathise with you Pointer but as long as you new the prise and was told no cull no write up then what's the problem .Like said you will still need to demonstrate most PC,S by the sound of it.
    The problem with your driving test analogy is that a driving test is something you either pass or fail. The DSC2 is not like that, as you well know. To quote again from the Witness Handbook:

    A candidate cannot “fail” DSC2. If they have not demonstrated the required DSC of competence, you explain why, do not sign off the associated PCs, and then remind the candidate that they can repeat the specific PC assessment at some time in the future.
    So in that respect they can keep going round the roundabouts until they get it right, as that is exactly how the DSC Level 2 assessment process is designed!

    Perhaps this comment to AW's is also worth bearing in mind:

    Opportunities for witnessed stalking are relatively rare, the candidate may have gone to great effort or expense to be with you and you may therefore need to be imaginative as to how you can use every available opportunity for gathering evidence
    If he was told "no cull no write up" then that should have got the warning flags going, but we don't know that for sure.

    willie_gunn
    Last edited by willie_gunn; 06-05-2014 at 06:54.
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  10. #10
    Willie you are correct and isn't that a shame it could have saved a lot of candidates a lot of money. I am just glad the deer sector didn't make me sit my Lev one three times after reaching the required standard.

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