Buying a firearm through RFD transfer

WTF

Active Member
Could anyone tell me about buying a firearm through guntrader for example, or from a private person, by transfer through an `RFD . What happens if it is a lemon. What rights does the purchaser have?

I have only ever bought guns over the counter before and this seems a bit risky but could be cheaper than travelling hundreds of miles to buy it.

Can you take to a range and try it?

Help!

It would be helpful to hear about your experiences

Ian
 
Good question, I am looking for a replacement .270 but am not sure how it works.
As you say what if it is not what you want?
How do you make the payment? is it before its sent , after you decide to take it?
 
Could anyone tell me about buying a firearm through guntrader for example, or from a private person, by transfer through an `RFD . What happens if it is a lemon. What rights does the purchaser have?

I have only ever bought guns over the counter before and this seems a bit risky but could be cheaper than travelling hundreds of miles to buy it.

Can you take to a range and try it?

Help!

It would be helpful to hear about your experiences

Ian

I would imagine Distance Selling Regs apply. Be clear, in writing, about the terms under which you are wanting to purchase the rifle. Ship it somewhere reliable (Steve Beaty at Ivythorn in your neck of the woods) and have them look it over with you. As an example Steve all but insists you shoot a rifle with him before you buy it!!
 
If you buy from a private seller and you have zero come backs ,when an RFD is only acting as a handling/forwarding agent he has no responsibility for the guns condition, plus 99 times out of 100 warranties are not transferable , that`s why many used guns /optics for sale by privateers on this forum and others are heavily over priced in my view , if you buy from a trader he is responsible for ensuring goods are of a merchantable quality , new or used, hence you pay a bit more.Caveat Emptor
 
L1A1, I suppose you pay by credit card, doesn't that provide some protection?
Perhaps I need to get my bike clips out and go and see.
Eric, do you think Steve Beaty will do that with a gun he just acting to transfer?
 
I rather think that when buying things by what amounts to "mail order" from private individuals, whether it be something firearms related or not, I employ the simple rule that I will not buy anything for more money than I can afford to lose.

To be fair, the great majority of people are still honest and you could count yourself very unlucky to come unstuck. I understand quite a few RFD's will send guns on spec to another RFD, so you don't have to pay upfront. Although you may still have the RFD charges to pay to dissuade those buyers who are not serious.

Having said the above, I haven't bought any firearm I haven't seen in the flesh. Unless it's something particularly rare, I imagine most things could be found within a reasonable travelling distance. Although travelling adds cost, it adds peace of mind and you could always make it into a bit of a road trip and incorporate something else into the day.
 
An individual does not have a credit card machine, PayPal probably wont want to be involved.
Buying from a RFD would be different.
Distance selling regs only apply to commercial not private sales.
Has anyone done a RFD to RFD private sale and can tell us how it works?
 
I have done a few private sales quite recently to S Ireland, Switzerland and in the UK.
The decision to buy and under what terms or guarantee is decided between each individual, description, photographs etc and once the decision is made payment method is arranged and carried out.
You then contact your RFD, the other party then contacts his RFD and the RFD's contact each other and agree to receive or despatch and at what cost to the seller and buyer, which is paid by them.
The seller then takes the firearm to his despatching RFD who takes it off his FC, packs it and then despatches it.
When it arrives at the receiving RFD, he informs the prospective buyer who then produces his FC with the authority to acquire. It is then put on his FC by the receiving RFD and that is the end of it.
If it turns out to be a lemon it is between you and the other person, both RFD's are purely there to act for the disposal from one FC and Insertion on the other FC.
 
Once the seller has it taken off their cert they cannot legally take it back
Mark

Just to clarify, 'once the RFD representing the buyer and acting as a carrier' has taken it off your FC the only way to get it back is to have a variation authorising the purchase of another of the same calibre.
 
If you buy from a private seller and you have zero come backs ,when an RFD is only acting as a handling/forwarding agent he has no responsibility for the guns condition, plus 99 times out of 100 warranties are not transferable , that`s why many used guns /optics for sale by privateers on this forum and others are heavily over priced in my view , if you buy from a trader he is responsible for ensuring goods are of a merchantable quality , new or used, hence you pay a bit more.Caveat Emptor

Nothing is worth less than the buyer is willing to pay for it!! Having had a bit of insight into gunshop workings through a friend it is interesting that whilst good service means you do all you can to ensure the customer is happy and looked after, many problems that arise once the firearm has left the shop is user error rather than the firearm. Talking of used, there are many firearms available to be bought and shipped through sites like guntrader and it would also be difficult to send a rifle back to an RFD having had it shipped to you locally and put on your ticket. Like for like a firearm isn't worth less because it is a private sale.
 
Regardless of the FAC re-entry issues
if someone has sold you something that is not as described they have committed the same offence had they done so over the counter

make sure all details and descriptions are written ideally by or confirmed by the seller
as many photos as possible

to be honest short of it not being as described the key issue is accuracy.
if it is sold as a sub MOA rifle with certain ammo and can not be made to shoot anywhere near I suspect you will have more of an issue trying to prove false advertising under the trades description act.
Few rifles are sold with borescope results

not many people are stupid enough to deliberately commit fraud over the sale of a firearm though

i have bought a few over the phone/web, a few unseen from rfd's
rifling condition has not always been great but they all have been made to shoot well
 
An individual does not have a credit card machine, PayPal probably wont want to be involved.
Buying from a RFD would be different.
Distance selling regs only apply to commercial not private sales.
Has anyone done a RFD to RFD private sale and can tell us how it works?
I recently bought a rem 700 .243 from another member on here. We agreed a price on the rifle, he found out the cost at his end to send RFD £35 and i gave him my Local RFD details. paid him via bank transfere and when the rifle arrived I had to pay my RFD £20 for him to do the paperwork his end. So it cost me £55 but the rifle was a 9 hour round trip away so take a day and fuel into account its not too bad. But if it was a lemon i suppose i would be buggerd, But i think most people in the sport and espacialy on the SD are good folk. You can always ask on the forum if people have had previous dealings and feedback before procceding. What .270 you looking for look at my thread ;)
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/83852-270-complete-set-up
 
Regardless of the FAC re-entry issues
if someone has sold you something that is not as described they have committed the same offence had they done so over the counter

make sure all details and descriptions are written ideally by or confirmed by the seller
as many photos as possible

to be honest short of it not being as described the key issue is accuracy.
if it is sold as a sub MOA rifle with certain ammo and can not be made to shoot anywhere near I suspect you will have more of an issue trying to prove false advertising under the trades description act.
Few rifles are sold with borescope results

not many people are stupid enough to deliberately commit fraud over the sale of a firearm though

i have bought a few over the phone/web, a few unseen from rfd's
rifling condition has not always been great but they all have been made to shoot well

Like I said before you only have comebacks if you buy off the trade , you cant sue joe public as he is not expected to be an expert where as an RFD..
 
Just to clarify, 'once the RFD representing the buyer and acting as a carrier' has taken it off your FC the only way to get it back is to have a variation authorising the purchase of another of the same calibre.

Sorry but you have got it wrong..... the weapon is only transferred to the RFD as the carrier as you say.... The weapon is still yours..... only when the RFD enters the details on the prospective purchasers FAC is the gun no longer yours. If the prospective purchaser refuses to accept the weapon ( for what ever reason ) the RFD will return the gun to you.... NO VARIATION REQUIRED.

David.
 
Sorry but you have got it wrong..... the weapon is only transferred to the RFD as the carrier as you say.... The weapon is still yours..... only when the RFD enters the details on the prospective purchasers FAC is the gun no longer yours. If the prospective purchaser refuses to accept the weapon ( for what ever reason ) the RFD will return the gun to you.... NO VARIATION REQUIRED.David.

When the RFD takes it off your FC it is gone and you no longer have authority without a variation to buy another firearm of that calibre.
The RFD has taken it on his register as accountable stock and is no longer yours.
The fact that he has agreed to act as a carrier to another RFD is irrelevent.
I had a rifle sat with a despatching RFD for two weeks awaiting the receiving RFD to get paperwork sorted, during the meantime I did a 1 for 1 variation and replaced the firearm I'd disposed of.
 
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So what happens when you put the gun to RFD for repair and he signs it into his register ..... You are saying that the gun is no longer yours. and that you have to have a variation to get the gun back ?????? THE GUN IS STILL YOURS until entered onto the prospective purchasers FAC. It is only with RFD to facilitate the transfer .

David.
 
When you put your firearm in for repair he enters it in his work register, not his stock register and he doesn't take it off your FC.
The reason the price varies between RFD's when doing transfers is because of the paperwork taking it on stock registers, both the despatching RFD and the receiving RFD.
At various stages during the process the firearm is owned by the RFd's albeit only for a short while but that is the accountable system.
 
I would imagine Distance Selling Regs apply. Be clear, in writing, about the terms under which you are wanting to purchase the rifle. Ship it somewhere reliable (Steve Beaty at Ivythorn in your neck of the woods) and have them look it over with you. As an example Steve all but insists you shoot a rifle with him before you buy it!!

Although the first obstacle you will have to cross is actually getting him to answer his phone or return emails.
Quite frankly I would rather stick a pin in my eye than ever deal with him again.
 
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