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Thread: Firearms Debate recently on BCUK Forum

  1. #1

    Firearms Debate recently on BCUK Forum

    I was involved in a debate over on Bushcraft Uk recently - in my persona as 'Oakleaf'.

    Its here - Scottish air gun licence

    It was very interesting - not least because one of the Moderators - Toddy - really made an effort to engage in the discussion. Part of what she writes is playing Devil's Advocate, but much of it isn't. Needless to say I disagreed with much of what she did say - politely! Regardless of that, what she had to say made for great reading.

    So often such threads are the usual arguing of semantics amongst ourselves. This thread gave an insight I've not seen anywhere else, into the thought processes of the general public. As I have noted in the thread, it makes chilling reading. For me it drove home just how far 'WE' have let things slide in terms of the public image of us. Every time self interest and ego won out, every word we spent bickering like children amongst ourselves, every time the other cheek was turned - not through moral righteousness but because it was SEP ( Someone Else's Problem ) or just too much trouble. Every time we bemoan how XYZ Organisation is jobs for the boys, aren't doing anything, but make not one effort to vote at meetings or write demanding change - or just fail to support another shooter because they shoot DTL and that's nothing to do with me.

    Please read the thread linked above. Please just read it - I post it as a positive, not a criticism of anyone ( except ourselves ). I would be personally very disappointed if some pleb on here uses it as an excuse to mouth off at Toddy or BCUK... and I mean VERY

    Prompted by the thread, I went and read the Bill ( here - http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4...9s4-introd.pdf ) . Its freely available as a PDF. Whether you live in Scotland or not, be clear this is nothing to do with the Independence Vote - its everything to do with bad politics, unfit for purpose Politicians who are not held to account, leading to bad laws and all progressing because as a group we've taken head in sand burying to an art form!

    Read it and if you are still not motivated enough to write a letter to your MP/MSP and one to the editor of a Red Top - then we are all truly in the twilight time of this sport as we know it. What to write? See - http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4...-introd-pm.pdf - and compare their own stated objectives with the actual result - the two halves just simply do not join up.

    Please, please guys, if this fires you up - then before posting here, send that e mail to your MP/ MSP.

    But beyond that - you at yourself. What personal things can you do to rebuild the image of shooting. Dont gas about it here - go do it!
    Stalking, Courses, Gear - Moray Outfiiting Website here - Welcome
    BASC Approved Trainer & Assessor. Cairngorm National Park Authority Approved Supplier. Supported by Sauer Arms
    See you at the Stalking Fair, Scone & Moy 2017




  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Moray Outfitting View Post
    I was involved in a debate over on Bushcraft Uk recently - in my persona as 'Oakleaf'.

    Its here - Scottish air gun licence

    It was very interesting - not least because one of the Moderators - Toddy - really made an effort to engage in the discussion. Part of what she writes is playing Devil's Advocate, but much of it isn't. Needless to say I disagreed with much of what she did say - politely! Regardless of that, what she had to say made for great reading.

    So often such threads are the usual arguing of semantics amongst ourselves. This thread gave an insight I've not seen anywhere else, into the thought processes of the general public. As I have noted in the thread, it makes chilling reading. For me it drove home just how far 'WE' have let things slide in terms of the public image of us. Every time self interest and ego won out, every word we spent bickering like children amongst ourselves, every time the other cheek was turned - not through moral righteousness but because it was SEP ( Someone Else's Problem ) or just too much trouble. Every time we bemoan how XYZ Organisation is jobs for the boys, aren't doing anything, but make not one effort to vote at meetings or write demanding change - or just fail to support another shooter because they shoot DTL and that's nothing to do with me.

    Please read the thread linked above. Please just read it - I post it as a positive, not a criticism of anyone ( except ourselves ). I would be personally very disappointed if some pleb on here uses it as an excuse to mouth off at Toddy or BCUK... and I mean VERY

    Prompted by the thread, I went and read the Bill ( here - http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4...9s4-introd.pdf ) . Its freely available as a PDF. Whether you live in Scotland or not, be clear this is nothing to do with the Independence Vote - its everything to do with bad politics, unfit for purpose Politicians who are not held to account, leading to bad laws and all progressing because as a group we've taken head in sand burying to an art form!

    Read it and if you are still not motivated enough to write a letter to your MP/MSP and one to the editor of a Red Top - then we are all truly in the twilight time of this sport as we know it. What to write? See - http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4...-introd-pm.pdf - and compare their own stated objectives with the actual result - the two halves just simply do not join up.

    Please, please guys, if this fires you up - then before posting here, send that e mail to your MP/ MSP.

    But beyond that - you at yourself. What personal things can you do to rebuild the image of shooting. Dont gas about it here - go do it!
    My tent was ready for the 2014 NRA (Spring) "Open Day" that didn't happen.

    Very sad and short-sighted.

    K

  3. #3
    Take a mate shooting. Clays, airguns, anything. Show them that shooting is not a bad thing and is an enjoyable hobby.

    The more friends we have, the better. If you are a member of a club, see if you can invite the MPs of some of your members...

  4. #4
    this worries me:
    (5) The conditions are that—
    (a) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of target shooting on private land,
    (b) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of participating in events or competitions,
    (c) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of the holder’s membership of an approved air weapon club,
    15 the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of protecting livestock, crops or produce on land used for or in connection with agriculture,
    (e) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only while carrying on business as
    a pest controller or acting as the employee of a pest controller.

    Basically removes the use of air weapons for non commercial pest control the way I see it.
    I can't see how you can legally use an air rifle to control vermin under general license unless it is as a business
    shooting magpies on a rough shoot you don't own the land with no birds put down does not fit in any of these

  5. #5
    I have written to my MSP expressing my opinion and asking him to clarify his position on the bill, and on firearms legislation in general.
    Very easily done using https://www.writetothem.com
    If we have the skills and resources to be on this forum, then we can email our MPs to express our views and hopefully ascertain theirs.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Malxwal View Post
    I have written to my MSP expressing my opinion and asking him to clarify his position on the bill, and on firearms legislation in general.
    Very easily done using https://www.writetothem.com
    If we have the skills and resources to be on this forum, then we can email our MPs to express our views and hopefully ascertain theirs.
    What he said +1
    msp pinged already

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    this worries me:
    (5) The conditions are that—
    (a) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of target shooting on private land,
    (b) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of participating in events or competitions,
    (c) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of the holder’s membership of an approved air weapon club,
    15 the holder may use and possess an air weapon only for the purposes of protecting livestock, crops or produce on land used for or in connection with agriculture,
    (e) the holder may use and possess an air weapon only while carrying on business as
    a pest controller or acting as the employee of a pest controller.

    Basically removes the use of air weapons for non commercial pest control the way I see it.
    I can't see how you can legally use an air rifle to control vermin under general license unless it is as a business
    shooting magpies on a rough shoot you don't own the land with no birds put down does not fit in any of these
    No. I think d (randomly numbered 15?) would cover the standard shooting 'permission' situation.

    Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 (England & Wales) makes it an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway with vehicular rights without lawful authority or excuse, if as a result a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Moray Outfitting View Post
    then we are all truly in the twilight time of this sport as we know it
    Fascinating and interesting discussion on Bushcraft UK. You are right that we are often our own worst enemies, I did my little bit by taking on a driven shoot in Norfolk. I'm not convinced we are yet in the twilight time of our chosen field sport however, and the contributing factors are many.

    I'm also not convinced that it will be legislation that causes decline. Slightly off topic (and forum), but certainly one contributing factor to driven shoots closing or scaling back are that those who enjoy driven shooting are not prepared to pay what it costs to put the birds over the Guns' heads (oh we're a full team and we don't pay any more than x per bird!). As soon as one shoot offers discounted shooting it devalues the whole sport. Shoots are scaling back and closing everywhere because those that run them are not prepared to subsidise Guns' shooting, which has nothing to do with firearm legislation, banning of lead or animal welfare - it's all of our own making.

  9. #9
    We may march, rant and generally be responsive to undeserved criticism but with no intention to detract from this singularly pertinent post or, god forbid, be accused of sexism there can be nothing more advantageous to our cause than recruiting as many green-eyed huntresses willing to get imaginative with the makeup as possible.

    I make no apologies for this assertion as the rules of engagement (if you wish to stand a chance of winning in the 21
    st century) are out there for all to see should there be the appetite to look and act.

    K



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