Is it me?!

flyingfisherman

Well-Known Member
This falls into the gurning and general slating category opposed to any sort of useful thread, but i feel i have to mention it. Been watching vids on youtube as i often do, coming across a lot of stalkers who are in the publics eyes through internet tv or having their own stalking outfits. I listen to them and watch what they do and see someone who isn't experienced, doesn't look to be at one with what they are doing and just doing things for the camera. Even then, when stated that they are doing best practise, do some interesting things with rifles which, if i were there would lead to a conversation at the least about their actions, best practise or not..

Is it me, or does it seem that nowadays your ability seems to either be self professed by how good your website is or how good you can talk or what qualifications you hold (to a lesser extent)? Once upon a time i remember when your piers were the ones who would deem you any good or not.. not ab-initios in the sport or people who have done their DSC1 with you and sung your praises, after all, with all due respect, how accurately can a newbie, FNG or ab-initio gauge how good you are?

Stalking in my eyes has changed dramatically over the last 10 years, with more dodgy characters wheeling and dealing than i've ever seen before, more people with a nano second of experience professing to be managers because they hold whatever DSC and more people selling their services through being (and i coin a phrase used by a colleague) a self-licking lollie pop. Its not just in the recreational area, but i hear and see this happening in the contracting world as well as professional guides.

Dont get me wrong, the stalking world also has lots of good eggs in it, i've met some of them through this very site, but i also see some fonts of knowledge receding into their shells as their voices are drowned out by these self professed experts.

Sounds grumpy doesn't it.. I wonder how many others see similar behaviour themselves...
 
No it's not just you at all I totally agree , sadly experiance counts for nothing to most stalker ex just bits of paper
 
People claiming to be experts if they have a certificate is not the fault of the qualification, it's the person. Stalking is no different from anything else where you can either gain from experience and/or qualification.
 
Totally agree with your comments at the top and I wont lie I get great pleasure out of watching some online clips etc but as stated, and its the way we are heading im afraid paper to prove everything IE DSC 1+2, then of course your advance deer managers courses and even in some aspect live capture courses, health and safety, 1st aid, Meat handling, Atv that's just to name a few next I can bet my life something is put into practise for shooting foxes because we are using High velocity rounds either in daylight but more so during the dark hours. don't get me wrong I am not shying away from any such course but its apparent this is the way forward and gone are the days of being shown methods of culling, gralloching etc and over time and several lessons from a self taught teacher would we be allowed the privilege of showing what information we had retained by proving in front the teacher you have learnt how to do certain task by carrying out the task under his supervision and not at 100`s of pounds

Does that make any sense at all
 
Sort of.. To clarify though I have no problems with certification to do the job, in fact I can only see it as raising the minimum standard.. I think virbius hits the nail on the head is that basically it's the characters which you get in all walks of life..

Just seems there's plenty of self professed experts in the stalking world.. And it grips my poo. I used to humour them, although I've lost my patience with listening to this drivel!
 
I totally agree with everything you guys are saying and im the 'new breed' of stalker with all the papers and not a vast amount of experience. Only been stalking for 3 years (other than air rifles and 22lr bunny bashing with father when i was young) still young-ish (31) and i have a lot to learn the level 1 & 2 definatly helped open doors for me to get into shooting - doors i dont think wouldve opened without the certificates, but when it comes to all aspects of stalking my father and the guys he has stalked with since before i was born would put me on the wrong bus every day of the week and most of them dont have level 1 or 2 and have no intention of ever getting it. I dont claim to be a know it all due to getting the dsc's but i really think its a good move for begginners.
 
Ok a question so if a person has been brought up all their life on a farm or gamekeeping or similar back ground that's have been shooting day in day out say for 40 years plus for some shooting deer, foxes etc etc what what benefit would DSC have for these, I don't mind as ive completed all the training I require
and enjoyed and learnt something
Gaz
 
Speaking as one of the new breed of stalkers, I found DSC1 invaluable, simply because I didn't know any stalkers or anyone who stalked and that was the only way in which I could learn the basics from someone who knew what they were talking about, because you can only go so far with books and forums. Same as I approach anything else I want to learn, really: buy some books, do a proper course, find some people to teach you. But it was only a start, obviously. I've learned much more from my various guides subsequently. But it was an excellent place to start from. And yes, it was clearly instrumental on the no-quibbles granting of an FAC from the Met Police. It just sort of answered their question before they had to ask it.
 
Same thing here in the states. If you are photogenic, and can sell product, you can have a show. Then once you have your show, you start getting special deals or access to properties so that you can shoot the big ones. If you do something bad, you sweep it under the rug - no need to worry about losing your show.

There was a local guy that has gone on and made to the big time, has his own TV show and spends a lot of time in Africa. On one of these hunts he "accidentally" shot the PH through the shoulder with a big rifle. Fortunately no one died, but he still has his show. I cannot quite fathom that?
 
Ok a question so if a person has been brought up all their life on a farm or gamekeeping or similar back ground that's have been shooting day in day out say for 40 years plus for some shooting deer, foxes etc etc what what benefit would DSC have for these, I don't mind as ive completed all the training I require
and enjoyed and learnt something
Gaz

Hi gaz,

to to answer your question, probably not much benefit knowledge wise, but it will get you in with private forestry and fc for stalking leases as most now want atleast level 1 with a lot wanting level 2 as well. And they don't take into account wether your and old head with 40 years pro stalking experience, if you don't have the certificates you won't get the lease.
 
I totally agree with everything you guys are saying and im the 'new breed' of stalker with all the papers and not a vast amount of experience. Only been stalking for 3 years (other than air rifles and 22lr bunny bashing with father when i was young) still young-ish (31) and i have a lot to learn the level 1 & 2 definatly helped open doors for me to get into shooting - doors i dont think wouldve opened without the certificates, but when it comes to all aspects of stalking my father and the guys he has stalked with since before i was born would put me on the wrong bus every day of the week and most of them dont have level 1 or 2 and have no intention of ever getting it. I dont claim to be a know it all due to getting the dsc's but i really think its a good move for beginners.

I'm in a similar position and would by no means consider myself an expert or really even experience but have been fortunate to spent a lifetime in the rural way of life etc. People now think that simply having pieces of paper and gadgets and gizmos are a replacement for base knowledge and field craft.
 
I think DSC is like passing your driving test, it will get you a car to drive, and you can put a noisy exhaust on it and all the bells and whistles ,but you will be caught speeding and the chances of having a accident in the first few yrs is very high
As to it getting you stalking, apart from the FC etc, Most farmers land owners would not know what it mean,t, I here on here often, people saying that they only got stalking after doing the course, If a complete stranger asked to stalk with me and his claim to fame was DSC 1, what do you think my answer would be, what gets you stalking is foot work.
 
This falls into the gurning and general slating category opposed to any sort of useful thread, but i feel i have to mention it. Been watching vids on youtube as i often do, coming across a lot of stalkers who are in the publics eyes through internet tv or having their own stalking outfits. I listen to them and watch what they do and see someone who isn't experienced, doesn't look to be at one with what they are doing and just doing things for the camera. Even then, when stated that they are doing best practise, do some interesting things with rifles which, if i were there would lead to a conversation at the least about their actions, best practise or not..

Is it me, or does it seem that nowadays your ability seems to either be self professed by how good your website is or how good you can talk or what qualifications you hold (to a lesser extent)? Once upon a time i remember when your piers were the ones who would deem you any good or not.. not ab-initios in the sport or people who have done their DSC1 with you and sung your praises, after all, with all due respect, how accurately can a newbie, FNG or ab-initio gauge how good you are?

Stalking in my eyes has changed dramatically over the last 10 years, with more dodgy characters wheeling and dealing than i've ever seen before, more people with a nano second of experience professing to be managers because they hold whatever DSC and more people selling their services through being (and i coin a phrase used by a colleague) a self-licking lollie pop. Its not just in the recreational area, but i hear and see this happening in the contracting world as well as professional guides.

Dont get me wrong, the stalking world also has lots of good eggs in it, i've met some of them through this very site, but i also see some fonts of knowledge receding into their shells as their voices are drowned out by these self professed experts.

Sounds grumpy doesn't it.. I wonder how many others see similar behaviour themselves...


Absolutely, totally 100% correct :thumb:
 
I think DSC is like passing your driving test, it will get you a car to drive, and you can put a noisy exhaust on it and all the bells and whistles ,but you will be caught speeding and the chances of having a accident in the first few yrs is very high
As to it getting you stalking, apart from the FC etc, Most farmers land owners would not know what it mean,t, I here on here often, people saying that they only got stalking after doing the course, If a complete stranger asked to stalk with me and his claim to fame was DSC 1, what do you think my answer would be, what gets you stalking is foot work.

Spot on Taff
 
I think DSC is like passing your driving test, it will get you a car to drive, and you can put a noisy exhaust on it and all the bells and whistles ,but you will be caught speeding and the chances of having a accident in the first few yrs is very high
As to it getting you stalking, apart from the FC etc, Most farmers land owners would not know what it mean,t, I here on here often, people saying that they only got stalking after doing the course, If a complete stranger asked to stalk with me and his claim to fame was DSC 1, what do you think my answer would be, what gets you stalking is foot work.


I totally agree with you on that's as well Taff, the farmers probably would have no idea what dsc is if you presented it to them and that's all good and well as long as you have permissions and stalking through local farmers etc all I'm saying is that without dsc the forestry companies (not just the commission) who lease the majority of stalking won't entertain you application without these certificates wether you have one or forty years experience. And again I agree with the comment regarding shooting partners - I would much rather stalk with someone who's not got dsc but has been in the game a long time rather than someone who's read a book and got level one - I was fortunate to have been brought up in a shooting family so I'm happy with my level of safety but atleast for total novices the dsc does give a good insite into rifle safety/muzzle awareness etc - and everyone has got to start somewhere including yourself at some point. I know this is a touchy subject and everyone's view differ but in my opinion if you want to stalk deer in the future (with deer as a legal quarry on your fac) sooner or later these certificates will b needed probably by all but most certainly atleast be needed for new comers.
 
Last edited:
I am all for people learning about safety, but is a dsc really the answer for that, gun clubs have a probationary period, why not have training days like in the USA.
If we had these days with a cert, the forestry company's would jump on it, the police could send a FLO along to ensure it went well and offer advice, and we should have no stupid issues with licenses.
There you go mike Jelen, I am more than confident you can arrange this if only in hants to start with.
 
Not just the deer stalking world is it flyingfisherman, the fly fishing world has the same issues, many 'experts' in both fields.
Cheers
Richard
 
Here we go again......

Stalkers with years of experience are fine, but only if you happen know them personally or if they come recommended by someone you trust. If not, they are an unknown quantity.

Consider it from the perspective of a nameless and faceless bureaucrat sitting in an office of an NGO such as the Forestry Commission, National Trust, Woodland Trust, local council, etc.

On your desk you have the CV's of two individuals, neither of whom are known to you; one apparently has 15 years of experience but has not gained any recognised qualifications, the other has perhaps 5 years experience and DSC1/DSC2.

Looking at the two CV's our bureaucrat sees one individual who has, by gaining the relevant qualifications, demonstrated a willingness to engage in what's known as continuing professional development (or CPD in management speak) and to keep up with the latest theory and best practice.

The other has 15 years of practical experience, but to no recognisable standard and with no demonstrable proof of being aware of the latest rules, regulations and other red tape that all NGO's have to contend with.

Which do you think they will choose? Which would you choose?

Now consider if they don't just have two CV's, but they have twenty or two hundred. When they do their first review to get it down to perhaps five candidates, which CV's do you think will go straight into the round file?

It may not be right, it may not be fair, but sadly it's what happens.

willie_gunn
 
Look at it another way the one applicant has been working his arse off for the last 15 yrs with no time for personnel development and a wealth of on the job knowledge, the other has sat on his arse in a class room doing very little on the job practice, which would you employ.
Its why there's a sayin in the public sector , " that a employee will be promoted one level above his capability"
 
Back
Top