Discharging a rifle a rifle at close range

shuggie

Well-Known Member
Hi all i would like your comments on my findings ,i probably average around 100 deer a year for the past 15yrs ,i shot a deer which had been wounded at close range and got a object come back which struck me on the face.I started to do a bit of research on the subject what i found were interesting to say the leased.M.O.D N.R.A National Police Improvement Agency and all ranges have a policy of no rifle to be shot less than 50mts into a unpredictable back stop ,and 20mts into a soft or sand ,i tried a crude experiment by placing a large rock in the back of a cardboard box shot 1 shot at 100yds ,the rock was smashed the front was full of holes from shrapnel ,i looked up Newtons 3rd law for every force there is a opposite and equal apposing force,i checked the web for bullets in slow motion every time a bullet hits a object you get fragments coming back.Now when you think these rifles can produce between 2000 and over 3000fbs of energy and can be spinning at over 3000rev a second which can produce over 12fbs of energy.When doing level1 the safety aspect was when shooting a deer make sure there is a safe back stop at say 100yds,yet for humane dispatch at between 5 and 25cms no is no mention of safety.My opinion is that someone passing there level 1 with maybe very limited knowledge should be made totally aware of these dangers.
 
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Its a good point and one that is not raised all that often on here. Ricochets can occur close up or at any distance and most of us are relying on unpredictable backstops. Worth considering.
 
Its a good point and one that is not raised all that often on here. Ricochets can occur close up or at any distance and most of us are relying on unpredictable backstops. Worth considering.

Thinking what about 22rf if can ricochet off flat hard dry ground and go just about Anywere ????
 
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Would there not be a rather wide variation when it comes to ricochet depending on the bullet structure (soft point as opposed to ballistic tip)as well as weight and muzzle speed?
 
What i was most concerned about was back splash at close range ,bullet fragmentation bone rock and ricochet ,every time a bullet hits a object back splash occurs,but at say 100yds there is no danger due to back splash but ricochet can occur.What i can not understand if anybody ask you to stand 5yds from a target you were going to shoot at you would have to be crazy,yet we are told its safe to dispatch at between 5 and 25cms into bone and a unknown surface under the grass .Please be aware back splash always occurs but only affects you at close range.
 
I've always wondered about the dispatch of wounded deer at close range and potential accidents I think ricochets would be my secondery concern next to splash and fragments at these ranges. The fact we don't hear of accidents is testament to the fact the people conducting these dispatches are conducting good risk assessments and know there craft well.
 
Always use the lowest power equipment you possess to do this work. This may seem to be old hat but I use the following in the order listed:
Captive bolt
.410
.22R/f
.243
These are all legal for dispatch work. Most of it is based on the range, and convenience. Rarely do I need to consider the backstop quality as I am unlikely use my rifles. If I do use a rifle I always try to keep the bullet path down the animal's neck to keep the bullet inside the animal.
Never get closer than about 6in with free bullet or shotguns or you will get splash back and put your gun at risk of over-pressure. Always wear protective equipment over eyes and hands.
 
One question to everyone on this forum ,would anyone stand close to a target being shot at 100yds into a unpredictable backstop.
 
Im not sure if its in the best practise or whether it was just good advice from the instructor, but a recent DSC1 course that i was helping with, the instructor brought up this very point and suggested that you want to be over 30m from the deer being dispatched if your going to use a CF rifle. Ideally 60m.

As you say, its something definitely to be aware of.
 
myself doing a lot of dispatch work now and also tracking and having to shoot over a dog I am now going down the road of lead bullets for my rifle and a dedicated underlever, heavy slow bullet which is only doing around 1400fps with lead no splashback and is the perfect expanding bullet. These bullets at those speeds i dont need an exit its safer for my dog and myself in close cover and when i need to use something even slower i use the handgun as it is only doing around 7-800 fps and again fully lead bullet for exellent expansion and again less chance of an exit to wound me or my dog, these are just different tools to use at the correct time, if i cannot use those or the shotgun then its a knife each situation is different and carefull concideration is needed for each event, atb wayne
 
key issue is backstop and tool and ammo being used for dispatch. At close range it goes without saying that larger more powerful bullets pose an increased risk because of the sheer energy that is hitting the ground and splash can come back and get you or with tougher bullets the bullet itself. The likes of a .410 with general shot is perfectly capable at close range under 5m.

Bullet construction is very important and the frangible hollow point, or varmint/target polymer tipped bullets will generally smash apart when the hit the deer or ground (if you miss and people do at close range) but step up into partition or lead free bullets and you need a lot more 'bank' to try and ensure it's safe.

It's not as easy as just one tool does all, you may have a crawling deer or one that won't sit still and if you get a phone call without seeing the situation first hand how can you choose the best tool for the job!! .410 for anything close range where possible and some deer especially in the summer are in grass and cover that you have to get right on them to get a line of sight. No way a rifle is top tool in those situations!!
 
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As Mereside states,rifle,open sights,big heavy slow bullet-proven to stop anything.

Paul you're right too if there is no dog there,410 fine...however we work with dogs-so rifle is a must,as is the knife.
Im not keen on a handgun but in certain circumstances,yes.....
No blanket statement on which is best-depends on the job.

Paul try stopping a red stag with a 410 that is coming at you when being followed by your dog-what do you do?fire the 410,risking killing your dog and tickling the stag?:D

Like I say-depends on the job.......

Rifle is the tool needed,only if you have the right calibre and bullet though.Big,heavy and not frangible-monolithic solid,perfect.
 
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This subject has occurred to me before, probably more so after I shot a red deer calf last season and got a ricochet that made to round exit through the back of the neck. See my right up “Slight over kill! Heart & neck shot with one round!” Basically the RWS .270 passed through the body hit the far shoulder and then ricocheted off travelling up through the neck and out. The bone density of a calf would be less than an adult and so getting a result like this did surprise me.
My thinking is if this can happen at a good range then what happens at closer range and that exiting round is still lethal. Makes me stop and think!
 
The risk assessment that we perform is yours alone no two are the same and everyone has a choice of how they will perform this action,i dont have a problem way that.The problem is that on DSC 1 and Best Practice Guidance there no safety guidance at all for humane dispatch nothing about trying to look through a scope at 5mts lots of scopes want focus ,the shot if fired could be anything from 1inch to over 2inch low.The folks who shoot a lot might know all this,but if you are new to stalking or rifle shooting and dont know the dangers and never been told you could land with a serious injury ,is this the wright way to instruct new folks by avoiding the issue
 
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