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Thread: DSC - If no DSC what is your legal position

  1. #1

    DSC - If no DSC what is your legal position

    Following on from my question about who has and who has not a DSC 1/2.

    If it should happen that a stalker without DSC 1/2 puts a bad carcass into the food chain by any route or have an accident that becomes a Health and Safety issue. Who thinks not possessing the qualification would put them at a disadvantage if a case is taken to court?

    As I see it without DSC 1/2 and being 'not trained', regardless of the experience they may have, they could be risking serious penalties.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by billh View Post
    Following on from my question about who has and who has not a DSC 1/2.

    If it should happen that a stalker without DSC 1/2 puts a bad carcass into the food chain by any route or have an accident that becomes a Health and Safety issue. Who thinks not possessing the qualification would put them at a disadvantage if a case is taken to court?

    As I see it without DSC 1/2 and being 'not trained', regardless of the experience they may have, they could be risking serious penalties.
    Personally I'd think someone with DSC 1/2 would be more at risk, on the simple basis that they should have known better. There have been photos posted in the past of carcases allegedly put into the food chain by holders of DSC2 that, if the photos were correct, should have been buried.

    IMHO this is exactly the type of problem that a system like DSC 1/2 can potentially cause, in that some holders could mistakenly see their certification as some kind of get out of jail free card - "I've been trained so I can now put any carcase into the food chain". With robust management by game dealers this needn't be the case, of course.

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  3. #3
    Nobody without the large game handling part of the DSC 1 should be putting anything into the food chain. It would be the person accepting such carcasses from a 'non-trained hunter' that would be liable.
    MS

  4. #4
    I think that HACCP applies to everyone who has been involved in handling the carcase, so all would be jointly and individually liable regardless of the dsc1 trained hunter qualification.

    atb Tim

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey Spanker View Post
    Nobody without the large game handling part of the DSC 1 should be putting anything into the food chain. It would be the person accepting such carcasses from a 'non-trained hunter' that would be liable.
    MS
    That would be my view. And if you buy venison from anywhere other than a trained hunter, you take the risks.........

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by timbrayford View Post
    I think that HACCP applies to everyone who has been involved in handling the carcase, so all would be jointly and individually liable regardless of the dsc1 trained hunter qualification.

    atb Tim
    Tim, I don't believe that's what HACCP is designed to do. The control point should prevent a poor carcass entering the chain for sure, but it doesn't apportion blame. As has been said, if a person buys from a non-trained hunter, then caveat emptor. A GHE would assume the role and liability of the Trained Hunter. Remember a TH can 'sign off' anothers carcass.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey Spanker View Post
    Nobody without the large game handling part of the DSC 1 should be putting anything into the food chain. It would be the person accepting such carcasses from a 'non-trained hunter' that would be liable.
    MS
    +1

    It's all about tracability these days, without DSC you should really only be using venison for own consumption... unless you know a dodgy game dealer who will take carcasses.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Red View Post
    Tim, I don't believe that's what HACCP is designed to do. The control point should prevent a poor carcass entering the chain for sure, but it doesn't apportion blame. As has been said, if a person buys from a non-trained hunter, then caveat emptor. A GHE would assume the role and liability of the Trained Hunter. Remember a TH can 'sign off' anothers carcass.
    this applys to food business only as HACCP is monitered .HACCP ccp stands for critical controll point ,each part of the prosses should have a ccp there should be a ccp at the point off GOODS INWARDS if it is not taged and is comtaminated then you would follow your haccp and iam sure it would say to both faults that rejection of the product is the couse of action it should never go in to the food chain the whole piont off haccp is to pevent thing from happening in the 1st place .If it still entered the food chain the all blame would lie on the person who excepted and signed for the carcase .if he was not athouthrised to take delliver of carcase then the management would be at fault under poor staff training ,NO deer should be entering a EEC aproved plant(game dealer only) without a trained hunters decleration

  9. #9
    I'm not entirely sure that if you were not a "trained hunter" but still put an obviously contaminated carcase into the food chain that this would exonerate you.There is a long established principle in law that ignorance is no defense.

    For those that are taking DSC1 I would also draw your attention to Q. H84 on page 321 of the 2011 version of the BDS manual
    "Who must follow the HACCP principles?" the correct answer is d "Everyone involved in handling game carcasses"

    atb Tim

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by timbrayford View Post
    I'm not entirely sure that if you were not a "trained hunter" but still put an obviously contaminated carcase into the food chain that this would exonerate you.There is a long established principle in law that ignorance is no defense.

    For those that are taking DSC1 I would also draw your attention to Q. H84 on page 321 of the 2011 version of the BDS manual
    "Who must follow the HACCP principles?" the correct answer is d "Everyone involved in handling game carcasses"

    atb Tim
    Have they actually put anything into the food chain though? They could only legally sell a carcass to somebody as the 'final consumer'. There is no declaration to say that it is fit for human consumption or implication by them that is is good for onward sale. It would be the person receiving that then forwarded a carcass of untraceable origin that would be liable. There is no viable traceability back to the original source (who could deny anything), so no grounds for prosecution as there is no evidence that he intended the carcass to enter the food chain as such.
    MS

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