How short is too short (.22lr barrel)

bewsher500

Well-Known Member
I have a sako quad and acquired a 15" barrel and spare synth stock
previously it worked a charm, hole on hole or close to it at 50yds


The crown and thread job was a bit ropey so I had it recut and in chasing my dream of a very short pointy rifle I had an inch and a bit nipped off so the threads were just longer than the stock
The crown and threading job I had done is first class, have had work done on centrefires by the same person and they all perform well


took it out last night for the first time to zero it and it wouldn't group for toffee!
picture below to demonstrate just how bad!
the three triangular shaped groups are the .22lr (little circular ones at .17m2 at 50/100)
for contrast the sticker on the lower right is one of 5 shots plinking off sticks at 60 yds with the 14-15" barrel
4 inside an inch, 3 at around 1/2", off a proper rest it was mostly touching with some around about


barrel hasn't been deep cleaned (other than to remove swarf/solvent from cut/thread job)
ammo is the same
mod is the same
scope is the same, (all tight)


bottom target wasn't the most solid rest but no worse than off sticks (shots to the left were first ones to zero and the scope was adjusted)
middle target was two groups prone off a solid rest. first group left and scope adjusted to move POI right


is it now too short? or am i missing something here
I am conscious that the twist rate of 1:16.5" means it now only has roughly 3/4 of a twist as opposed to nearly one full twist with a 15"


 
i have the same rifle and often wanted to do the same. I know that others have chopped it down without losing accuracy.

sounds daft but the barrel and stock are tight?

have you also checked to see if the barrel is still free floating?
 
Check back of moderator isn't touching stock esp. if threads just clear stock as you said above.

Hope you get it sorted-might be worth a really good clean and going back to basics and trying different brands of ammo again?

Regards,

FNF
 
mod is clear of stock
its actually a varmint stock and a sporter barrel so "free floating" doesn't do it justice

stripped mod and all baffles are perfect, no clipping
scope is tight
barrel is tight
mod is tight

baffling!
 
Despite how good you thought the smith was that threaded the barrel-check the crown and ends of the rifling under a magnifier. I had same problem when a self titled 'expert' threaded my .22lr using a center in the barrel for support.

Another 1/2 inch off and a rethread-my problem was solved.
 
as ive said before mines 14 inch(NOT BRAGGING) and groups brilliant, but having said that it wasnt allways like that when brand new it was ok but not as good as it is now,might just need a few shots through it,and also had a brand new 455cz that was crap not the rifles fault after countless rounds and checking for weeks i found a slither of swarf in one of the mod shoulder threads cleaned out brilliant ,not saying its that but as you say youve just had it cut?
 
Bewsher
Maybe try shooting the rifle without the mod. That way you will know if it is affecting anything.
Remove action from stock & refit checking bedding is correct.
Refit the barrel ensuring it is properly/rigidly secured to the action.
Clean the bore thoroughly & make sure the crown has no burrs then shoot a good few rounds through it to "lead lube" the rifling.
Do your grouping tests of a really solid bed (bench rest conditions with front & rear bags).
If it shoots well then, start looking at the thread / mod fit / concentricity etc.

Ian
 
I have checked the crown and muzzle
looks perfect, as have all other crowns I have had done by them

crown is concentric and perfectly smooth, no obvious angle to any gas
clean edge to all lands
done the cotton bud test, can't get anything to snag

micro rifling looks clear as far down muzzle as I can see
mod mounts perfectly, no snagging
shoulders on barrel square and sight through barrel with and without mod shows no obstruction

very odd

have a ammo test to do now to see if is just a flavour thing with the changed barrel harmonics
have some:
Eley subs
RWS subs
Win subs
CCI segs


will see how they fair. be gutted if it likes the CCI's as they are pain in the proverbial to chamber!

will try a group without mod to check first and maybe foul up the barrel a bit




 
Last edited:
If all fails - maybe pressure bed the fore end to dampen the harmonics.:stir: (a temporary trial using cardboard or insulating tape is probably the way to determine if it is the way to go) Or add bedding for the first few inches of barrel from breech - removable barrel may affect this option???? - Cheaper than a new barrel!
I don't think you'll get a massive difference with different makes of ammo (similar projectiles running at similar velocities etc etc) - Maybe also try some high velocity rounds too - Do post your next targets. - Genuinely interested in this one!!

Just had a thought - when cleaning the barrel, when it's clean, try running a really tight patch up the bore - you can usually feel any bulges in the bore if there are any. If it has been shot with an obstruction in the bore at any time in the past, it could have been bulged & you getting it shortened a bit may mean you now have a blunderbuss type of muzzle.
However a bulged bore doesn't always mean bad grouping.

Ian
 
If it "worked a charm" (your words) before, why on earth did you try changing it?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 
Im no expert and not a gunsmith, but a similar thing happened to my Sako 243 had it cut down to 20inches and it wouldnt group at all, took it too another gunsmith who re-threaded it and it shot superb, he said he thinks that the thread and crown where not concentric.
Im not saying yours is the same but it may just be that!
 
If it "worked a charm" (your words) before, why on earth did you try changing it?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


because I am an idiot!
too late now!!

wanted it shorter and I know lots of people with 12-14" .22s with no issues
 
had my ruger cut , I had to try several different cans before I found one that would group, ended up with a old parkerhale, we think it was the bore not being central to the thread?
 
Not sure if this has been said already - maybe worth 'unfloating' the barrel. My CZ had dubious grouping at best until I adjusted it so that the barrel was pressing against the forestock. Group size more than halved to an acceptable 1 inch at 60m.
 
My .22 did groups like that - and worse - after I took the mod apart to clean and put it back together with baffles wrong way round. I hope you find that the cause of your trouble is something so simple.
What's wrong with a long barrel anyway? Full length looks much classier IMO.
 
CRISIS AVERTED!!

and on a slightly different note...mild embarrassment on my part for not considering this potential issue first!

so the barrel was fully cleaned,
all scope mounts and barrel bolt removed, refitted, torqued and checked
I swapped mods to a mates instead of shooting without one...


and crucially.....swapped scope!! (thank you Stuart!)
One of Nikko Stirling's finest 6x42's

Its already had 20 odd through it since cleaning, plus a few shots to walk it onto the target to zero the test scope
Once zeroed and shooting into the sticker I swapped back to my Weihrauch mod

Shot 5 groups with 4 different kinds of ammo
3 of the end of a Win Sub box
5 more Win Subs into the same target from a new box and then RWS, ELey and finally CCI

Conclusion: I shouldn't look for complex problems before considering the simple ones regardless of how unlikely!



I have never had a scope just fail without a knock or recoil event and never even thought to swap it just in case, it has been bang on since I got it 4+ years ago. The dead scope was a decent quality Japanese glass Tasco

Coincidence in the timing of the failure with the barrel work had me thinking of everything else BUT the scope!


with the exception of one pulled shot and the more open group on the CCI's I would be happy with any of the other brands and we are back in business!

C2C 5 shot groups-

RWS - 14mm
Win Subs - 16mm
Eley - 21mm
CCI - 33mm

Thank you for all your replies, certainly got me thinking of the variables involved.

Thankfully I do not have to find another gunsmith!!

/s40.photobucket.com/user/bewsh/media/HSF/IMG_1670_zpsd45e5025.jpg.html]
 
Back
Top