Stalker training

hughsurrey

Well-Known Member
I know this is a very touchy subject for some, and the point of the thread is not to start a debate on whether we need documentation to shoot, or which path to certification is the best, but would welcome opinions. Part of what I do to fund my stalking is run an City and Guilds NVQ centre.

The reason I like NVQ (although I have completed my DSC1) is that it is evidence based in that you do what you know how to do, and the evidence taken from that gets you the award. Ideal for those who know their stuff and need it documented, or those who are capable but not academically minded.

Anyway, a stalking friend of mine has asked me to add the Deer Stalking NVQ to my centres portfolio and I was wondering what kind of interest there is in this award?
 
I have heard of this qualification only once before. When I looked into it, I could find no information on it.

I know this does not help, but the qualification should be industry standard. If it is, then excellent, but it is not well known about, therefore a little advertising could help.
 
hi bud i for one dont like the idea of a certificate to shoot why 1 i have shot most of my life and personaly dont think there is eney one with a bit of paper thats more experienced than i am without a certificate example if i shoot say 100beasts a year you have your dsc 1 and you shoot 20a year are you a better stalker than i am. yet you can shoot forestrey comision land i cant .yet i do more deer per year than you i firmley beleve that the dsc1 etc will reduce stalking not boost it as 1 there are a lot of people who cannot aford it 2 by doing so its going to be them and us senario 3 if the law gets involved then every one will have to have it or they will not get deer on ther ticket 4 im dislexic and throe no falt of my own i cannot remember dates etc so if i went on a course id have no chance of remembering the deer dates its the wife who keeps me on the right side of the law :oops: so its not for me yes im about to blown to bits for this post im not saying im the best stalker in the world and yes there are others out there with the same experience i have but shooting is a sport for every one not just the chosen few if we put to meney restrictons on our sport then the future of our sport is buggered there is two meney deer and not enughf stalkers as is more paper work on the wall is not more deer in the larder sorrey for the spelling and hope you get my point in why i dont think deer courses are the way to go regards rob
 
As far as I know there isn't a Deer Stalking NVQ. There is a NVQ Unit 'Stalk and Cull Deer' as an optional unit in the NVQ3 Gamekeeping:

http://www.accreditedqualifications.org.uk/qualification/10024578.seo.aspx

A quick search of the Accredited Qualifications database - including both current and lapsed awards - shows a nil return for searches for 'deer' and 'stalking'

http://www.accreditedqualifications.org.uk/AdvancedQualificationSearch.aspx

I'd ask your mate what qualification he is on about. I suspect that, like so many others, he is confusing the DSC Level1 & 2 awards with NVQs. If that is the case the question really is how much demand is there for DSC1 & 2? I would suggest moving your centre to Scotland, if it ain't there already. :lol:
 
training

its a hard one but i aggree there should be some training of some kind.
i know there are stalkers who dont agree with dsc1-2 who have done it for years and thats fine but new comers should have to do some training befor they get a fac, or shotgun for that matter.
I know of a lad who fancyed a shot gun so he goined a club and got one as simple as that. ok thats fine but he was talking to me the other day and telling me he was out shooting on a farm and saw some small phesants things in a group so he had a shot but missed. now thats scary.
out of season and sounded like partrige to me but cound have been field fairs now he fancys a rifle, so you see where im coming from, training of some sort is a good idea.....
 
As time goes forward, so do the standards that are expected of us, & by US I mean all who shoot, wether it be clays / paper or live quarry, this is only going to go further in the same direction, as to those of us who consider ourselves quite happy to be "doing it without the paper qualifications", eventually, there will be a situation where you will need at least the very basics to continue with your chosen sport, It's human nature to take the ump when questioned wether we are fit to practice, my Dad just had to retest to drive, he was a little bit browned off to say the least, I have to complete a medical regularly to retain my entitlement to class one group (another bit of paper), but I get a much better response from landowners when producing the deerstalking & meat hygiene papers, along with mod range officer tickets, than I used to get way back in my youth, when all I had to show was a pocketful of ammunition. As to having difficulties with reading writing & math, (math being my greatest downfall), help is available & should not be considered as charity or an embarrasment, it is a right. Steve.
 
I completely agree with what finnbear says, like it or not i do believe its only a matter of time before you will need DSC to get deer on your ticket.

Paper qualifications are the way of the world now, ive been in the building trade for over 20 years and in the past year have had to take an NVQ to show i know what im doing(ive had lads working with me who have only been in the job 3 years and are "on paper" more qualified than i am)
 
i dont think like many others that you should have to have your dsc 1 on your ticket to be able to shoot deer, i have never taken it and the police were satisfied by a letter from another well known stalker saying i was at a level where as i could stalk competently. i agree that this is not ideal but i dont think that the dsc 1 is either after all you dont even shoot a animal to gain the qualification. the answer of what needed is not simple and to be honest i dont know the answer but what does grip me a bit is that you can recive your fac on monday and have a .30-06 on tuesday with no rifle knowledge at all and i do belive that you should serve an aprentaship with rimfire for a year or 2 before you are accepted for a centre fire then maybe another year after that you can go on to deer so as you have atleast a little rifle knowledge before you even think of deer stalking
 
main qualifaction should be expreiance with someone who has the knowledge and fieldcraft. I was lucky enough to be born in the countryside and stalked rabbits etc for many years.most are not so lucky but I firmly belive every would be stalker needs a mentor not just book and paper qualifications.I act as acc witness and have seen some who think becouse they have shot three or four deer they should have level 2.
this cannot be right. I served 5 years as apprentice to cut and join wood nine years to HND building on dey release. To rely on paper certs does not mean mutch to me.
 
Wraith, the benefit of an NVQ is that (generally speaking) it is what you do that counts, not whether you can spell or write and, as Finnbear says, any assessor must take account of your own personal abilities.

Bandit, although I am Scots I moved south some 20 odd years ago, cant see me moving back anytime soon, tho may visit to stalk if I can sort it out. I asked the same question today and it is the game keeping NVQ he is talking about, which may be of more use to some and less to others, I am still chasing up the info.

As for the other comments, I know exactly what has been said, my industry is full of people straight out of college/ university who have no practical experience but still feel able to tack the Engineer on to their name. However, despite what we feel, I think the writing is on the wall as far as some sort of qualification and I genuinely believe that NVQs, because they are based on real life experience, are the best of a bad lot.

I freely admit that, although I know my way round a rifle, hold my DSC1 and can punch paper with the best of them, there are guys out there who, despite having no 'paper' to their name , could leave me for dead in the ability stakes.
 
I think DSC1, or indeed an NVQ, should be compulsory for anyone wishing to stalk deer and I also think that a similar test of competency should be mandatory for "anyone" wishing to hold a centre fire rifle, and possibly even rimfire.

Everyone without exception has to take a driving test before they are allowed on the roads in a car or on a motorbike and yet we are quite happy to issue a high calibre deadly weapon to anyone who can fill in the application form correctly.......... get real for gods sake !

I'm in my 60s and a few years ago took DSC1 and 2. When a mate of mine heard about it he said, "it's a load of crap, I've been stalking for 35 years and I don't need a bit of paper to prove my ability". "But you might have been doing it wrong for 35 years", said I.

In my opinion it is generally those new to stalking who are prepared to put themselves through these tests and yet the "experienced" stalkers are not. I think they are frightened of failing and having their inadequacies shown up.
 
Blot said:
In my opinion it is generally those new to stalking who are prepared to put themselves through these tests and yet the "experienced" stalkers are not. I think they are frightened of failing and having their inadequacies shown up.

i feel you may of missed a valid point here
your mate might of been doing right for 35 years aswell
but don't get me wrong
any type of accreditation should get you further in a sport , hobbie or job than no creditation
and stalking is harder to get these days than it used to be and a lot more expensive
plus with the added pressure of some forces not granting you your first FAC unless you hav Level 1 and all the added hype on how beneficiary it is to some one new to stalking
of course they are going to be determined to get such documentation
nothing to do with us old timers that hav 20+ years experience feeling inadequate because we don't hav Level 2 :evil:

Hugh
geat idea and one such idea i put to a senior member a couple of years ago, who is involved in such training schemes
his reply was "That is what Level 2 is about"
 
I am a Gas fitter/ heating engineer, call it what you will :) I have spent 34 years in the industry learning and relearning my trade. we have had to go through compulsory re-testing for many years on a 5 year cycle. a couple of observations I have made along the way.
1)the older fitters struggle more than the kids just out of school because the whole classroom environment is alien to them.
2)the better someone is with his hands, the worse he is likely to be with the written and theoretical exams.
3)for someone whos job, or hobby/sport depends on answering the questions correctly, the stress can be intense, I have several employees who have had to resort to medical help to cope with the stress! not going to look good on your next FAC renewal?
4)the questions are set by some one who know the answers! sounds obvious but many times there have been questions set that only allow one correct answer , even though anyone experienced in the field may know several more answers to the same question....see above re stress.
5)the general level of knowledge tends to reduce in younger people as the exam specific knowledge increases.... this may be good or bad depending on whether you get paid to teach or by exam results
6)NVQ's etc generally start as an "ideal" they then become a "required"
7)NVQ's tend to be more highly valued by those who teach them and have a vested interest in them than by the people who have to pick up the pieces after.
8)once you start on the NVQ route they will become compulsory and then will multiply, no longer will one be enough, you want to stalk? thats NVQ stalking level 1/2 you want to stalk in the Highlands? that will be NVQ highland 1/2, wooded areas near to built up areas? same as..... and so on
it may be inevitable but believe me once you start down this route, it will be one way only and not for the better!
 
Kenny, I have had the same outlook as yourself, when I started to learn a trade, day release was the norm, I moved sideways from mech engineering into welding, at the time all qualifications were U.K. administered, such as British standards institute, then our American cousins started to open up the oil & gasfields, so then everyone had to retest/retrain to a.s.m.e. standards ( a lesser standard I might add), but as you have added in your post , inevitability is the constant strain throughout, once started it just gets bigger. :)
 
kennyc what you say about the NVQ so true. I worked in the concrete repair game and when i employed people they all had there NVQs. Not worth the paper they are printed on. Easier to employ Polish workers who worked hard and could at least under take the job at hand without making a balls up of it. The last job i did before moveing here i only employed Polish workers.
I think its just a matter of time before you need compulsory test before you can go out stalking. If you have a test for stalking why not a test for all shooting sports?
No shooting test makes a stalker ,hunter shooter no matter if its a German , Swedish, Dsc1,2 test I.v taken out a person with Dsc 2 a nice chap but he will never be a stalker all the time he has a hole in his rear end. Many years ago i took a Instructor from a well known Norfolk hunting club out stalking a couple of times, What a farce that was.
I remember when i did my Dsc1 and we did the shooting test 3 of us past first time. The level of shooting from the rest was abysmal but they kept them at it till all had past. Reading a few threads on here it would seem this is still true. Why are the past ? they should be told to come when they can shoot.
The police in England want you to do these tests but they still make you jump through hoops and wait for months to get a FAC would that change if the test was compulsory?

www.prokennel.se
 
training

hi i think we all need a competent level to have a rifle but as kenny says once you go down thw nvq route you will need about 6 or 7 nvq and at what cost the only people who do well from these schemes are the training centers and the training staff . i have worked in construction all my life and this has happened there you now need an nvq to have a ****
atb tom
 
Cards for this & tickets for that!............ I have several of them for many different machines / plant ..trade competency, NVQ's etc, BUT the best one of all is!......... "Sorry mate we don't recognise that one on this site!" (no one gets it!, they are all recognised by the H.S.E.!!, WHO IS BENEFITTING FROM THE CARD SCHEMES?) One of my cards is issued by the OLDEST plant card scheme operator, its inception was in 1952 & was the template for all the others :confused: but these robbers who run cpcs / cpc etc, seem have a mafia like hold on jobs & contracts! :eek: If I close my eyes for a while I can imagine I'm in Italy somewheres.
 
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