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Thread: Chapuis s/s double rifle

  1. #1

    Chapuis s/s double rifle

    Hi All

    Yesterday i popped in to my local gunsmiths in the Correze France for a couple of boxes of clays, and came away with a used Chapuis S/S double rifle in 8 x 57JRS Calibre, it came with a Docter red dot scope and they gave me a box of Winchester Super X 195 gn ammunition.
    Today i took it to my local range and fired eight shots into a six inch circle at 70 yards. Having never fired a double rifle before and With the red dot almost covering the target i was wondering if this this is about as accurate as you can expect with this set up, The Triggers are really heavy but that can be sorted, all in all its a nice little rifle, i would be interested to hear from anyone who uses this setup and also reloads for this calibre,

    Cheers Geoff

  2. #2
    Geoff I have a Chapuis UGEX in 9.3x74r to which I have fitted a small variable Leupold scope. My rifle shoots particularly well with most loads, in fact it shoots much better than my Unifrance O/U which is in 8x57jrs. The trigger pulls on the Chapuis are also very good indeed and are more akin to those on a good bolt action rifle rather than shotgun like as on the O/U. I use the scope mainly for playing around with various loads but actually prefer the open sights for what the rifle was intended for. I have tried red dot sights on other rifles and pistols in the past but they don't really suit my style of shooting but there again all the ones I have used have been at the bottom end of the market and not of the quality of say an AIMPOINT.

    Try to find out what cartridge the rifle was originally regulated for and try to duplicate this. My best guess would be that the rifle was originally regulated for the Norma 196grn Oryx load. You should be able to achieve a four round group (two from each barrel) of 40mm or better at 50 metres.

    Reloading will be a bit of fun for you mainly because of the difficulty in getting good .323" (8mm) bullets in this country but when you do get them the actual reloading is a doddle. Use standard 8x57 Mauser dies and a number 14 shell holder. I am currently using TR140 powder but have used several other powders in the past. Don't forget though that the rimmed round is loaded to lower pressures than that for 8x57 Mauser because of the break action.
    Last edited by 8x57; 24-08-2014 at 11:19.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  3. #3
    Doctor is 3.5MOA. I recommend if you want higher precision to get an aimpoint H1 Micro 2MOA and you should find accuracy improves without touching anything else.

  4. #4
    SD Regular Mr. Gain's Avatar
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    I sounds as though you are already having fun with the rifle and I'm sure there's more ahead.

    If you want a really precise red dot sight, try the SMS one from Shield PSD. This is available with a 1 MoA centre dot for precise shooting, surrounded by a 65 Moa outer ring for instinctive shooting (and to help you find the centre dot!). It is the same size as the Docter, so has a lower profile than the Aimpoint and is lighter too.

    I think 8 shots into 6" at 70 yards actually isn't too shabby at all, especially with a big dot and triggers that seem to need work. You don't say how you were shooting the rifle either, so there may be elements of position/support that could be changed to improve accuracy before you put 8x57s sound advice about reloading into effect.

    How do you plan to use the rifle in the field (quarry/range/static/diven), as this obviously makes a difference to what you need to achieve and is likely to require less than bench-rest precision?
    "Docendo discimus" - Seneca the Younger (c. 4 BC – 65 AD)
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  5. #5
    Thanks for all your answers, i will look out for a set of standard 5x57 mauser dies also i will ask my local gunsmith in france if he has .323in bullets, with regards to the dies what is the difference between mauser 8 x 57 and 8 x 57jrs except mabye lighter loads, the Rifle was a bit of an impulse purchase i have always fancied owning a double s/s and this one fitted the bill, i have been invited boar shooting with the local chasse, and i would like to do a bit of woodland stalking for fallow with it back in the uk, with regards to shooting the rifle at the range i used a bench rest but found it very difficult to keep the red dot centered due to trigger pressure, the front trigger was heavy but acceptable but the rear was very heavy probably not had a lot of use, when i get back to the uk i will get the triggers sorted and maybe mount a small scope. cheers geoff

  6. #6
    Have you thought about asking your French gunsmith to have a look at the triggers for you Geoff, they tend to be far more familiar with such rifles and have normally been properly trained in gunsmithing unlike many of the self taught "gunsmiths" in this country.
    With regard to bench shooting the rifle I would look to support the front shooting hand rather than resting the fore end of the rifle, also limit the number of rounds that you shoot at one time as these rifles tend to warm up rather quickly.

    I had a problem with the first set of 8x57 dies that I bought for my rifle and the sizing die had to be replaced as it wouldn't bump the shoulder of the case back sufficiently. Mine were Lee and the company sent me a replacement die which did resize correctly yet they still maintained that the dies were within spec.

    I have never had a problem with the RCBS dies that I purchased for my 9.3x74r double so if I were starting out again for the 8x57 I would probably go for dies made by RCBS. You will probably have to full length resize after each firing as break action rifles don't benefit from the camming action of a bolt action. I did buy a Lee collet die in 8x57 but didn't have a lot of success with this cartridge yet I am quite a fan of them when loading for my bolt actions rifles, perhaps others have found different when loading for a break action.


    The biggest problem that you are going to have though, and this is a major one, is that doubles and break action rifles are addictive. Once you have bought one you will want another. I've been very pleasantly surprised by the number of fellow site members who have come out of the closet in the last couple of years and either purchased such rifles or have admitted to owning one or even two or more. Perhaps we should start a support group for the benefit of those of us who have become afflicted.
    Last edited by 8x57; 25-08-2014 at 10:15.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  7. #7
    Welcome to the world of double rifles and combination guns. Two good forums at Nitroexpress.com and accuratereloading.com with lots of double rifle users. I have a combination gun and it took a change of though process.

    Forget what you know about bolt action rifles, particularly the modern style of bipod, bench rest, high power scope, free hand holding the butt etc. with a very light trigger that requires just a touch.

    Your forehand is critical with a good firm hold of the barrels, and the back of the resting against a rest etc. breathing is all important - in / out and in and as the sights become aligned squeeze both hands, pulling the rifle in and breaking the trigger. This squeeze controls the recoil, especially in bigger calibres and remember to follow through.

    Secondly, remember that the two barrels are each quite thin and are soldered together. The heat firing the barrel means that they are warped towards the other one. Now a double is regulated on the basis of a pair of shots. Ie bang and bang. Let the barrels cool, before taking the next pair of shots.

    With a big red dot sight, make a target of a white square or diamond the diameter of the red dot, with thick black lines around the edge and squeeze when the dot is in the middle - or just make a silhouette of a boar or deer and shoot it as you would normally. Don't try and aim the rifle, making minor adjustments - look at the target and think the bullet into it as you squeeze.

    And I would also be giving Chapuis a call to find what loads your rifle was regulated with, and stick to that bullet weight/type and velocity.

    looking at the other forums, most doubles seem to shoot four inches or so at 60 /70 yards. Craig Boddington, in his book Safari Rifles talks about minute of Grape Fruit for a double. Now I like eating Grape Fruit so a clay pigeon is a pretty good target instead.

    With a red dot sight with no magnification and no previous experience of a double six inches at 70 yards is not too bad, but you will do a lot better with some practice. With mine combination, with a 6x42 scope, I get a one inch group if I take my time a let the barrel cool. Totally happy knocking a fox or Roe deer over with it at 140/150 yds, but most are taken much closer and it is plenty accurate enough. I do have the luxury of a set trigger - it's a push forward to set. I used it a bit when I first got it, but quickly found it not conducive to accurate shooting as a very light trigger and a firm squeeze to hold don't work. The trigger pull is like a good shotgun, and don't even notice it now.

    But also remember your double is built to deliver two quick shots on game that is moving or about to move, and it will do this very well, and with much less fuss than a magazine rifle - those who use doubles / break actions know what I mean. Those that think I am talking s.....e haven't been enlightened.

    And as has been said above, it's a nice addiction to have.
    Last edited by Heym SR20; 25-08-2014 at 19:07.

  8. #8
    "Those that think I am talking s.....e haven't been enlightened." Then I'm still in the dark Sir. LOL

    Joking aside Heym is quite right in every thing that he says and in particular that it does take a change of thought process. I wish that I could have put it so well.


    P.S. Think of yourself as having joined a super elite group, even more elite than being a Blaser owner but with no need to be so defensive or aggressive when our choice of rifle is slighted by others. We are after all above all that.
    Last edited by 8x57; 25-08-2014 at 20:07.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57 View Post
    "Those that think I am talking s.....e haven't been enlightened." Then I'm still in the dark Sir. LOL

    Joking aside Heym is quite right in every thing that he says and in particular that it does take a change of thought process. I wish that I could have put it so well.


    P.S. Think of yourself as having joined a super elite group, even more elite than being a Blaser owner but with no need to be so defensive or aggressive when our choice of rifle is slighted by others. We are after all above all that.
    Actually for me it was n't so much a change in thought process, it was remembering the lessons I was taught when learning to shoot as a boy in the 1980's with open sighted BSA Cadets, Meteors and Airsporters, and in the CCF, No8 .22rf and No 4 .303s, all of which had draggy triggers.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57 View Post

    P.S. Think of yourself as having joined a super elite group, even more elite than being a Blaser owner but with no need to be so defensive or aggressive when our choice of rifle is slighted by others. We are after all above all that.
    We, is that the "royal we". You don't speak for anybody but yourself.


    Geoffery, I use a Swarovski PH1.25-4x24 on my blaser double with the circle dot reticle. I find it extremely effective on running deer when hunting with my dogs. I can even shoot clay pigeons when I put in on my combination rifle. Anything out to 200m is in real trouble.

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