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Thread: Can of worms...

  1. #1

    Can of worms...

    Anyone like to offer their opinion on:

    'Wounds & Wound dynamics' to be expected on their choice of British Deer species prior to pulling the trigger..

    ..and what they actually found out after inspecting the carcass?

    NB only interested in educated, articulate comment please....
    Last edited by rick6point5; 09-09-2014 at 16:52.

  2. #2
    You mean, ' What you hoped to achieve' and 'what you actually achieved' with regard to bullet choice, shot placement and trauma? ... still a bit of a funny question if you don't mind me saying!

  3. #3
    Funny as in?

    Over the years I have found it an area that many are not familiar with, until they see the results, and still quite possibly don't understand afterwards,
    I think it is something that must be considered prior to taking the shot myself.. in fact possibly even before that

    What is your opinion?

  4. #4
    Well before the shot I expect to see the head explode and the deer dead, using 110 ballistic tips out of a 270, usually under 100 yds, surprisingly after the shot that is what has happened.

  5. #5
    Taff, when experienced in these things, using that particular bullet in your CF2 will have that effect, i expect it saves time looking for the atlas joint?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rick6point5 View Post
    Funny as in?

    Over the years I have found it an area that many are not familiar with, until they see the results, and still quite possibly don't understand afterwards,
    I think it is something that must be considered prior to taking the shot myself.. in fact possibly even before that

    What is your opinion?
    I meant a strange way to word it. I had a rough idea what you were getting at. I assume you have been reading something online in the medical sphere cos its certainly not language the average stalker would be using?

    My answer: I used the same caliber and bullet weight and the primarily the same bullet construction for the first 4 or so years of stalking and shot well over 100 roe in that time. So I ended up knowing what to expect from that combination and velocity at average distances. Used 5 calibers since then and various bullet weights and constructions and learned a little more about what factors contribute to our area of terminal ballistics.

    I think you will find you need to be playing with this type of thing day in day out to build up a wide overall knowledge to predict with any accuracy the effect of any given caliber/bullet combination. This is where research sites such as 'ballistics research' come in handy. Its easy to give you the factors in theory. Speed (at POI), weight, bullet construction and resistance at POI. In practice it is complete trial and error.

  7. #7
    Alas the much spoken about atlas joint, I have been known to find it on the rare occasion I have looked for it, personally any neck vertebrae will do, with a quick twist.
    but on your original question, with the 3030 using 150g federals, Again under 100yds I expected the bullet not to exit on a pump house shot, but to penetrate causing significant damage to lungs or heart and lodge under the skin or in the shoulder, on the opposite side to entry, I have a couple of perfectly expanded bullets which proved this, yet a couple of weeks ago I shoot a red stag, where it caused the correct amount of damage but exited completely.
    Is this the sort of thing you were looking for.

  8. #8
    Not completely sure I understand what the OP is after, but here are a few observations of situations where expectation and outcome did not match.

    1. Head shot fallow pricket. 100 yards with a 150gr .308 ballistic tip. Expected a lot of damage (essentially expected head to largely blow apart - and this was what others had lead me to expect). Instead had a very neat, calibre sized entry wound and no exit (deer folded up on spot). On lardering, found that the impact had severed the spine, completly disarticulating the atlas joint, but largely left the skull intact.

    2. Small roe buck, chest shot slightly quartering away. 100 yards with 90gr .243 soft point. Expected small entry wound and larger (50p sized) exit. Entry was MUCH bigger - at least 50p sized (looked more like an exit wound), with masszive damage (jellified meat etc) spreading all around and well into adjacent shoulder. Exit was through offside shoulder. Smashed clean through humerus, taking substantial chunks with it. Deer stumbled 10 yards before collapsing. Was actually able to follow the bullet's track after leaving the deer by the bone framents, blood and bits of lung scattered in its path - it ploughed into hillside about 30m behind deer, with a bit of humerus only a foot or so before the crater. Very surprised at how far the bone fragments had gone. Meat around exit was salvagable almost up to the hole.

    3. Large roe buck, chest shot quartering toward, slightly uphill. 100 yards with 100gr .243 soft point. Misjudged angle (was facing more head on than thought). Bullet entered just forward of onside shoulder (very small, neat entry). Did not exit - ploughed into underside of spine and came to rest embedded in offside shoulder. Deer folded on spot. Massive damage to offside shoulder meat - like a hand grenade had gone off against it.

    4. Very small roe button buck. Clean broadside shot. 60 yards with 150gr .308 ballisitc tip. Expected god awful mess. Instead, large but neat entry (bit bigger than 10p), very large but neat exit (2 inches). Deer ran 10 yards before collapsing. Classic 'eat-up-to-the-hole' with external meat, internals were porridge. Friend shot identical buck (probably this one's brother) at same time, with .243 at same range, and had less salvagable meat.

    5. Medium sized roe buck. Clean broadside shot, quite steeply down hill. 100 yards with 100gr .243 soft point. Expected classic neat entry, bigger exit. Nothing of the sort. Shot went low and slightly too far back (operator error). Entered just forward of diaphragm, somehow turned to angle along the body, and effectively unzipped the belly, along the line you would take to gralloch. Guts fell out and deer stumbled 10 yards or so, before couching. Had to be head shot again to despatch. On examining, there was no green! Rumen etc intact - bullet had somewhow opened up the skin without puncturing guts. Meat all prefectly salvageable.

    I hope that is of interest.

  9. #9
    Mungo. I think what the OP is getting at is, given your 5 different experiences should you/we all know what your/our choice of bullet will do when placed at any given point on deer. (Correct me if I am wrong Rick)

    There are so many different variables. Even if you used one rifle, caliber and bullet, you would still get all sorts of unpredictable results.

    Had an interesting one last week,

    I shot a Muntjac Buck at about 50m. I meant to put the bullet under its chin but it actually hit his chin square on. The bullet travelled on through the neck and glanced off the spine below the atlas joint (I was in an elevated position). When I had a good look at the skull I realised that it was separated horizontally and the palette and upper teeth were seperated from the rest of the skull with the skin still holding it all together. Its in the freezer at the moment so it will get some further examination when I try to salvage some sort of trophy from it. I doubt whether is was fragmentation. It may have been shock. Bullets just do strange things no matter how well they are designed.

  10. #10
    2p worth
    i have always try'd to keep my bullets if found, some think i am just mad boiling them out! but seeing how the prod has opened up or fraged or not help me decide on the bullets i now use.

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