Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: The yes vote

  1. #1

    The yes vote

    Hi chaps just a quick one, if the Scottish people vote yes on Thursday how will this affect the stalking in Scotland as the fc is government run ?

  2. #2
    great minds think alike I've just put up a thread asking the same questions


    Lee

  3. #3
    The truth is that no one knows the answer to this or a whole torrent of other questions.
    basically the choice is being made without any clear understanding of what the real implications are..

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by urx View Post
    The truth is that no one knows the answer to this or a whole torrent of other questions.
    basically the choice is being made without any clear understanding of what the real implications are..
    Exactly this.

    However, you can at least get a sense of the likely direction of policy based on the SNPs explicit ideology with regard to land redistribution, firearms ownership and wildlife management.

    Land redistribution: they are keen on finding ways to break up the large estates and limit the amount of land held by single individuals. This has clear implications for the sporting estates and larger farms, with obvious knock on implications for (at the very least) red deer stalking.

    Firearms: they have long been committed to devolved firearms legislation anyway, and are very hostile to extensive (or indeed any) private ownership of firearms. Precisely how hostile they are, and how committed to actually removing all private ownership is unclear - though McKaskill himself seems determined to ban all private ownership. This has very clear implications for all shooting sports.

    Wildlife management: they appear to favour an American model of wildlife management, where all wildlife is the property of the state (ie. the deer on your land actually belong to the 'Scottish people'). SNH in particular appears entirely committed to this approach, and is explicitly in favour of taking direct control of, at the very least, setting cull targets. However, based on conversations with members of SNH, what they really want is to control every aspect, from population monitoring through setting cull targets to actually conducting the culls (or at least licensing them via tendered tickets for specific numbers of animals). They are vehemently opposed to the current system, both on ideological grounds and on the grounds that it prevents the emergence of coherent, landscape level management plans.

    The first two, I think, are rather ambitious, and even with a strong Yes mandate, it will take years for anything really substantial to change - during which time there is every possibility of the SNP being voted out. To put it in perspective, even in Zimbabwe, it took ZANU PF about 20 years to get really serious about land seizure!

    The last I think is the most worrying, because there is already considerable traction for changing the way deer are managed at the national level, and it is something that is likely to proceed, in one way or another, even in the event of a No vote. My guess is that, within 10 years or so, we will start to see the emergence of local cull targets set by SNH (ie. they will tell a given estate or farm how many should be taken in that year), and stalkers will have to apply for (and probably buy) a per animal ticket. I'd guess that this will be accompanied by an increase in the qualifications required to actually be allowed to stalk - probably to DSC2 or equivalent, and possibly beyond. Given the importance of visiting stalkers to the rural economy, I doubt this will be prevented, but I'm fairly certain that they will be obliged to always be accompanied by a locally licensed guide (as is the case in, for example, Africa).

    My predictions anyway.
    Last edited by Mungo; 17-09-2014 at 08:04.

  5. #5
    Independence and SNP rule, are not certain to go hand in hand. Many Scots are for independence, but at the same time aware that the SNP are a bunch of loons. If the YES vote comes tomorrow, I'll be very surprised if an SNP government is in place come independence on 24th March 2016.

  6. #6
    I get so angry about how governments feel its OK to spend hundreds of thousands if not millions of tax payers money setting up quangos fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

    ATB

    Chasey

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
    Exactly this.

    However, you can at least get a sense of the likely direction of policy based on the SNPs explicit ideology with regard to land redistribution, firearms ownership and wildlife management.

    Land redistribution: they are keen on finding ways to break up the large estates and limit the amount of land held by single individuals. This has clear implications for the sporting estates and larger farms, with obvious knock on implications for (at the very least) red deer stalking.

    Firearms: they have long been committed to devolved firearms legislation anyway, and are very hostile to extensive (or indeed any) private ownership of firearms. Precisely how hostile they are, and how committed to actually removing all private ownership is unclear - though McKaskill himself seems determined to ban all private ownership. This has very clear implications for all shooting sports.

    Wildlife management: they appear to favour an American model of wildlife management, where all wildlife is the property of the state (ie. the deer on your land actually belong to the 'Scottish people'). SNH in particular appears entirely committed to this approach, and is explicitly in favour of taking direct control of, at the very least, setting cull targets. However, based on conversations with members of SNH, what they really want is to control every aspect, from population monitoring through setting cull targets to actually conducting the culls (or at least licensing them via tendered tickets for specific numbers of animals). They are vehemently opposed to the current system, both on ideological grounds and on the grounds that it prevents the emergence of coherent, landscape level management plans.

    The first two, I think, are rather ambitious, and even with a strong Yes mandate, it will take years for anything really substantial to change - during which time there is every possibility of the SNP being voted out. To put it in perspective, even in Zimbabwe, it took ZANU PF about 20 years to get really serious about land seizure!

    The last I think is the most worrying, because there is already considerable traction for changing the way deer are managed at the national level, and it is something that is likely to proceed, in one way or another, even in the event of a No vote. My guess is that, within 10 years or so, we will start to see the emergence of local cull targets set by SNH (ie. they will tell a given estate or farm how many should be taken in that year), and stalkers will have to apply for (and probably buy) a per animal ticket. I'd guess that this will be accompanied by an increase in the qualifications required to actually be allowed to stalk - probably to DSC2 or equivalent, and possibly beyond. Given the importance of visiting stalkers to the rural economy, I doubt this will be prevented, but I'm fairly certain that they will be obliged to always be accompanied by a locally licensed guide (as is the case in, for example, Africa).

    My predictions anyway.
    You are rather out of date, we are already given our cull targets by SNH, and before that DCS and before that RDC

  8. #8
    By independence Salmond has every intention of having his policies so far advanced that the first true independently elected government will be tied up in litigation for years. Let's face it, Europe will overturn the majority of SNP pledges as against civil liberties or too bent bananas. Break up estates. Lawyers are already rubbing their hands. Vote with your heads come tomorrow not your hearts. Like Scottish football, passion does not guarantee results. We don't have the players to keep up in the big picture. Our hospitals are already under staffed. Many doctors are foreign. Even Aberdeen cannot attract UK consultants. Our brightest and best will still migrate south and being replaced by Middle East immigrants. Ten years time Cameron will be a distant memory lost in the mist of time. Yes will haunt us for generations to come. Remember, no separation issues of costs have been discussed. Do you honestly believe we can walk away without a share of the burden.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bogtrotter View Post
    You are rather out of date, we are already given our cull targets by SNH, and before that DCS and before that RDC
    Not everyone.

    I stalk on 2 farms and 1 estate, and none of them are subject to cull targets set by SNH, I assume (though I don't know for sure) because there are no red deer on them.

    What I mean is an explicit, binding figure given to all land - both public and private, for all species.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
    Not everyone.

    I stalk on 2 farms and 1 estate, and none of them are subject to cull targets set by SNH, I assume (though I don't know for sure) because there are no red deer on them.

    What I mean is an explicit, binding figure given to all land - both public and private, for all species.
    Sorry I thought you were referring to red deer.

Similar Threads

  1. find out who you should vote for
    By Mungo in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 20-09-2013, 09:10
  2. Please vote
    By PKL in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 13-02-2011, 13:31
  3. Before you vote
    By blackie64 in forum Jokes & Funnies
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-05-2010, 07:15
  4. Now we know who to vote for:
    By caorach in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-05-2010, 23:30
  5. Please Vote
    By Ben P in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-09-2008, 08:59

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •