Using iron sights?

Essexsussex

Well-Known Member
Is it a practical consideration up to say 120m? Does anyone use them on their primary rifle? I am wondering what the real life limitations might be, rather than the ones I can imagine.

both my huskys have iron sights and I only have one set of mounts between them. I like the idea of one being open sighted, but only having air gunned like that I am not sure what to expect.


thanks in advance

will
 
I suppose the obvious limitation will be at first and last light, where a decent scope will still allow you to see a lot more clearly. How much of a problem this is depends on how much pressure you are under to meet your cull targets.

Beyond the low light issue, if you can shoot it accurately then you've just saved yourself a lot of weight to be carrying round.
 
The limitations of iron sights is more to do with the limitations of the shooter than the sights themselves. That's not to say that scopes don't provide a significant advantage in reduced light situations in which most of us stalk if woodland stalking.
Why don't you get some practise in on the range and see how you get on, you may be very pleasantly surprised. With good open sights and reasonable light conditions shots out to at least 150 yards should be a doddle or at least acceptable.
 
also remember there is a big difference aiming at a nice big black circle on a clean white background and getting a sub 4" group in the middle (and unless peep sights your probably not actually aiming at where the bullets hit )

and picking out the right spot on a large brown blob
 
That's where the need for practise comes in. Shooting at a large black circle, if that's the target that you choose, or a large brown blob is no different. Unless you have your sights offset for some reason or misaligned your bullets should be striking where you aim.
 
also remember there is a big difference aiming at a nice big black circle on a clean white background and getting a sub 4" group in the middle (and unless peep sights your probably not actually aiming at where the bullets hit )

and picking out the right spot on a large brown blob

Well that's the bit I was thinking would be the issue. It is a big attraction that once you know the sights, you know they won't need re zeroing (ie you can't) and remain true to where the bullet went last time.
 
I used iron sights as a stalker many years ago. As stated anything up to 150 should be dead. However it is a skill, usually learned from air rifle shooting. The fore sight into back sight has to be spot on. It has to be adjusted for range. It is not a simple case for line up and pull trigger. a red deer standing in turning bracken through an iron sight while trying to hold a deer outline at 100 yards is not as simple as you think. I love iron sights but I would not go back to them.
 
Well that's the bit I was thinking would be the issue. It is a big attraction that once you know the sights, you know they won't need re zeroing (ie you can't) and remain true to where the bullet went last time.
bollox. Iron sights need zeroing just as much as scope. They are less prone than scope to movement, but they can alter with knocks, loads, weights, ware, and general abuse. Elevation is pretty well fixed. That is where amount of fore in back sight has to be known. But side shift is common.
 
We'll there we go, learned something again on here! I hadn't really paid much attention to the iron sights before but thinking about it they probably do have a side to side adjustment. Shows the error of assumption. Hopefully they'll suffer fewer knocks though.
 
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I done a experiment a few years ago with a group of friends of varying ages and experience. I placed targets at 50 meters and everyone shot using my .22lr with open sights. I then fitted a cheap 6x scope. After zeroing, everyone had another go at shooting a target. On average the group sizes halved. Draw your own conclusions.
 
Depends what you are used to a lot of us older shooters learned to shoot with open sights, where as some of the younger ones will never have used them, or if they have probably only on an airgun.

I can't remember my father ever having a rifle with a scope on it.

I used to have a client from Alaska that came to the stags, he shot an old 30-06 Springfield with open sights, he was no less successful than any other client.

So very much depends on your experience of shooting with open sights.
 
bollox. Iron sights need zeroing just as much as scope. They are less prone than scope to movement, but they can alter with knocks, loads, weights, ware, and general abuse. Elevation is pretty well fixed. That is where amount of fore in back sight has to be known. But side shift is common.

It was not uncommon to come across rifles with leaf sights a set of blades that you could flip up for varying distances, a bit crude maybe you still needed to practice a bit and not treat the yardage printed on the blades as gospel.
 
Or time a willingness to learn I guess. One I have, the other is in short supply. Think I'll look for some mounts that will fit the husky. Thanks everyone for your contributions it's been very interesting. I will however have a few shots on the range before the scope goes on, just to know what it's like!

the sights are the flip up ones with distances marked on.
 
The only iron sights I've used were my air rifle days , with practice I remember being a fair shot . I remember head shooting rabbits 40m or more with open sights on a regular basis ......but I was out with my rifle nearly every day .

With practice using open sights I could see no reason why you couldn't hit roe size out to 100m and fallow out to 150m , how nice would your rifle feel without a big old scope and mod weighing it down .

Practice practice practice
 
Is it a practical consideration up to say 120m? Does anyone use them on their primary rifle?

Yes and yes. I've shot groups of under 1" at 100 yards using iron sights on a sporting rifle. And if you use them ALL the time you will learn how to lift the foresight up from its usual "picture" of level with the top of the rearsight blade to give increased distance.

Best iron sights however at longer distance are a straight blade and a square notch and not the usual round bead and "U" notch seen on most sporting rifles. Even better, some say, is a peep rearsight as on the No4 .303 Enfield.

The big problem with some bead sights is those that are not flat on the front aspect like a table tennis bat but rounded on the front aspect like a dome. These will always cause the rifle toshoot away from the sun. Either low or low and left or low and right.

In my day I could hit a man sized target out to 1,000 yards with iron sights. I'd not shoot at a deer with either 'scope or iron sights at that distance.
 
My new (old ) rifle has Williams open sights that look very good with good adjustment and I'd be keen to use them I did shoot the rifle first day I had it using the opens and found them quite accurate even by my standards lol and I have apel swing offs so it would be easy should a close fallow potter by the tower I may get a bit of practice in !
Norma
 
I have never stalked with iron sights, but I have target-shot fullbore (aperture, or peep-sights) and plinked and shot vermin using an airgun (open sights, 'Patridge'-type) with them.

From reading the writers of former days, it seems a number of points seem useful to bear in mind for sporting (rather than target-rifle) sights - the common denominator of which is to keep things simple:

1. Shallow obtuse V ('express') rear and bead foresight seem to have been preferred in the UK for acquisition and non-obscuring of target

2. The bead, the whole bead and nothing but the bead (L.B. Escritt)- always take the same sight picture - the whole bead in the bottom middle of the V. Hold high or low as appropriate for range, but don't change the sight picture as the results that way will be more predictable.

3. Have any additional 'flip-up' rearsight leaves removed (Henry Tegner, Sir Gerrard Burrard)- you're likely to have the wrong one up when it comes to the shot, leading to miss or wound.

4. Peep rear-sights acceptable on sporting rifles also - but not the big nobbly target-rifle kind.
 
I done a experiment a few years ago with a group of friends of varying ages and experience. I placed targets at 50 meters and everyone shot using my .22lr with open sights. I then fitted a cheap 6x scope. After zeroing, everyone had another go at shooting a target. On average the group sizes halved. Draw your own conclusions.

Simples. They had just experienced one of the learning curves in becoming a competent all round rifleman. Namely consistent site picture.

I recall in my air rifle days; prior to getting to grips with certain scope mounting problems, often whipping of the scope in the field as the open sights were more consistent.

My eyes are shot now so won't be dumping the Austrian made alternative.

K
 
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L.B. Escritt

What? Him of "Rifleman and Pistolman" book writings? I have or at least had a copy of that somewhere. And Tegner.

Interestingly so that they could be transported free of charge with the regimental weapons the sporting rifles of British Army officers serving abroad HAD to be in .303 calibre and also equipped with sights out to 1,000 yards.

It is also a way to tell a rifle's intended use. Rifles for the Indian sub-continent were generally equipped with sights out to 200 or 300 yards at maximum. Rifles for Africa were equipped with sights out to 1,000 yards plus so that the owner could "brown" herds of meat animals for supplies of food whilst on safari. This is mentioned by the writer Stonehenge and others.
 
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That's the very book from which I took the quotation about the bead! And he's right, I think - taking a fine or coarse bead is a pretty random way of doing it compared to honestly holding a given amount under or over with the correct sight-picture.
 
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