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Thread: Pine Marten's symbolically-charged drilling.

  1. #1

    Pine Marten's symbolically-charged drilling.

    Hello everyone.

    As some of you may have seen from Stratts’ thread that Ididn’t mean to hijack, last week I bought what would seem to be a beautiful J.P. Sauer drilling in 16 bore and 7x57R (http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4969495),and pretty much for a song too. Actually, given that I’m buying it with theproceeds of the sale of my ‘fowling piece, it was free. But the point is thatthis is much more to me than the acquisition of a really great item. Becausethe background is that a couple of years after the Fall of the Berlin Wall, arather younger Pine Marten used to draw cross-sections of drilling barrels inthe margins of his exercise books at school. There were other drawings, it wasn’tthe only theme, but it was there in the various symbols of things I’d rather bedoing than sitting in classrooms over twenty years ago.

    The thing is that back then, I knew I wanted to be a hunter,but I had no means at all of realising this ambition. I fell back on readingall the books and magazines that I could on the topic, a habit that I nevershook off partly because I still can’t actually go shooting anything like asmuch as I want to so still need that vicarious thrill, and of course spent alot of time poring over the kit sections. Many years before I went anywherenear a rifle, I had a pretty vast theoretical knowledge of sporting guns,calibres, legislation (on both sides of the Channel), safety practices,relevant zoology and techniques, etc. all of it gloriously unencumbered up byalmost any experience at all.

    And one of the things I settled on all those years ago wasthat one day, I wanted a drilling. Obviously I knew all the models andmanufacturers (it’s a short list), prices, cartridges, had the catalogues andbrochures, but of course no money and no opportunity to use such an item. Evenas things moved on little by little and I slowly, bit by bit managed to realisesome of my ambitions, helped along in no small part by Sir Tim Berners-Lee’sinvention of a means to contact others like me, the drilling remained a daydreamingtopic. It didn’t really make sense as a sole gun, and anyway they were rare andexpensive. No-one sells them here, and a new one costs a fortune to import.They costsa fortune even if you livenext door to the factory!

    But then I discovered eGun.de, and it occurred to me thatmost of the drillings in the world are probably in Germany, that there’s a sizeablesecond-hand market, and that no-one wants 16 bore shotguns or 7x57R rifles. Andbehold, I was right: that specification of drilling was coming up with someregularity for sale and selling for a tenth of the new price. Such are thevagaries of fashion! So the somewhat reluctant sale my wildfowling gun becauseI just didn’t need it anymore became an opportunity to realise a twentyyear-old dream, which is now only a few pesky forms away from my grasp.

    As you may also know, I have never yet shot a roe buck. I’vetried, but they didn’t feel like giving themselves up. Now I wonder whether maybethe Cosmos means for me to do this with the drilling, because the buck isn’tdestined for the current Pine Marten, but rather for that boy drawing dreams ofescape during lessons. I hope so. It would be an elegant narrative for if Iever needed to write that story.

  2. #2
    PM,

    I am sure you were reading the same books as I was. I remember borrowing from the Library a large book called "Hunting around the World" or something similar which had a large section on combination guns and drillings. I still have a copy of the "Encyclopedia of Shooting" that under the entry of Firearms has all the different combinations available. 16 bore and 7x57r makes a very useful all round combination. It will be light enough and handle well enough for feathered game, and the rifle barrel will be good enough for anything in Europe or plains game in africa provided you put that 7mm bullet in the right place and keep ranges reasonable. And you will find that it is just the weapon for quitely stalking and looking for that elusive Roe Buck, but keep a few shotgun cartridges handy, so that when he doesnt show up, you can come home with a couple of fat wood pigeons for supper.

    All you need now is a split can trout rod, and you have all the makings of a mcnab of some sort.

    Enjoy it when it arrives.

  3. #3
    You are very right about fashion depressing the price of some wonderful machinery. I grew up on a 16-gauge, starting with my grandfather's Damascus steel double, with rabbit ear hammers, and then to my own. The 16-gauge is sort of like the 28, in that it gets the job done with shorter shot strings and less recoil.

    The 7x57R is, by all accounts, the most accurate of the drilling cartridges. I am have got my combi gun regulated with 173-gr factory S&B and 175-gr handloads, and moving on to get other loads shooting to the sights. It is a labor of love.

    I grew up on a large farm, with abundant small game, foxes, bobcats, quail, and ducks, and really fell for the drillings and combination guns later on, when several of them. Obsession set in.

  4. #4
    I've had a 16 bore French hammergun from St Etienne for years, and it's my favourite one for roughshooting. I notice no difference in ordinary use between the performance of the 16 and the 12. It's not right for wildfowling though, but then I'm no good at that with the 12 bore either!

    The plan is to develop a load for the 7x57R that's near as damn it the same as my 7mm-08, with the same bullets and powder. I'll develop some FMJ loads too just so that I can familiarise myself with the drilling properly before taking out into the field. After that, I'll need to find some opportunities that require a shotgun and a rifle at the same time!

  5. #5
    Just out of interest how has your FLO responded to you having two 7mm rifles on your ticket?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    I've had a 16 bore French hammergun from St Etienne for years, and it's my favourite one for roughshooting. I notice no difference in ordinary use between the performance of the 16 and the 12. It's not right for wildfowling though, but then I'm no good at that with the 12 bore either!

    The plan is to develop a load for the 7x57R that's near as damn it the same as my 7mm-08, with the same bullets and powder. I'll develop some FMJ loads too just so that I can familiarise myself with the drilling properly before taking out into the field. After that, I'll need to find some opportunities that require a shotgun and a rifle at the same time!
    I used to kill my limit of ducks (5) and quail (10) every weekend with my 16-gauge. Sold it in college, then bought and restored one like it, an AH Fox.

    I think you will find the 7x57R regulated to the iron sights with a 173-gr bullet at about 2,350 fps. Start with the Sellier & Bellot.

    Having a scope makes it easier to set it up for a second load or two. I am trying the S&B 139-gr RN bullets they load in their 7x65R. Because of the long throat, I am trying the discontinued Hornady 154-gr RN. A long bullet, like the 154-gr SST, is very likely to shoot well. You are not going to be able to load it up as hot as a bolt action 7x57 or 7mm-08....more like:
    175-gr at 2,400 fps Do we really need anything else? That is like a .303 Enfield.
    160-gr at 2,450 fps Sierra SPBT is super accurate in the .280 Rem and 7x64.
    154-gr at 2,500 fps My goal
    140-gr at 2,650 fps Same as a 7mm-08 carbine, low recoil
    120-gr at 2,800 fps Barnes TTSX or Nosler Partition ( a wonderful deer bullet at that speed )

    I have gobs of good loads from old books, old articles, old loading manuals, and other 7x57R owners.

    There are some newer powders, like Hybrid 100V, which will not produce high pressures, yet hit the velocities in the longer barrels, so I am trying it and 4831. Hodgdon 414 ( or Win 760) seem to be very accurate in the 7x57mm and 7x57R, and I finally got my hands on some of each just last month.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Heym SR20 View Post
    Just out of interest how has your FLO responded to you having two 7mm rifles on your ticket?
    It was never mentioned. I just said it was for the exact same thing as the main rifle was for, but with travel in mind, and they waved it through. Essentially it didn't come up as an issue.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern View Post
    Having a scope makes it easier to set it up for a second load or two. I am trying the S&B 139-gr RN bullets they load in their 7x65R. Because of the long throat, I am trying the discontinued Hornady 154-gr RN. A long bullet, like the 154-gr SST, is very likely to shoot well. You are not going to be able to load it up as hot as a bolt action 7x57 or 7mm-08....more like:
    175-gr at 2,400 fps Do we really need anything else? That is like a .303 Enfield.
    160-gr at 2,450 fps Sierra SPBT is super accurate in the .280 Rem and 7x64.
    154-gr at 2,500 fps My goal
    140-gr at 2,650 fps Same as a 7mm-08 carbine, low recoil
    120-gr at 2,800 fps Barnes TTSX or Nosler Partition ( a wonderful deer bullet at that speed )

    I have gobs of good loads from old books, old articles, old loading manuals, and other 7x57R owners.

    There are some newer powders, like Hybrid 100V, which will not produce high pressures, yet hit the velocities in the longer barrels, so I am trying it and 4831. Hodgdon 414 ( or Win 760) seem to be very accurate in the 7x57mm and 7x57R, and I finally got my hands on some of each just last month.
    Thanks for that! I plan to develop a load using N140 and my new-fangled 150gr DL1 bullets (http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.u...venture-begins) which have a long straight-sided body and should fit well with the long neck you mention. I've found a source of new S&B brass so I'll order a batch of that shortly.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Pine Marten View Post
    Hello everyone.

    As some of you may have seen from Stratts’ thread that Ididn’t mean to hijack, last week I bought what would seem to be a beautiful J.P. Sauer drilling in 16 bore and 7x57R (http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4969495),and pretty much for a song too. Actually, given that I’m buying it with theproceeds of the sale of my ‘fowling piece, it was free. But the point is thatthis is much more to me than the acquisition of a really great item. Becausethe background is that a couple of years after the Fall of the Berlin Wall, arather younger Pine Marten used to draw cross-sections of drilling barrels inthe margins of his exercise books at school. There were other drawings, it wasn’tthe only theme, but it was there in the various symbols of things I’d rather bedoing than sitting in classrooms over twenty years ago.

    The thing is that back then, I knew I wanted to be a hunter,but I had no means at all of realising this ambition. I fell back on readingall the books and magazines that I could on the topic, a habit that I nevershook off partly because I still can’t actually go shooting anything like asmuch as I want to so still need that vicarious thrill, and of course spent alot of time poring over the kit sections. Many years before I went anywherenear a rifle, I had a pretty vast theoretical knowledge of sporting guns,calibres, legislation (on both sides of the Channel), safety practices,relevant zoology and techniques, etc. all of it gloriously unencumbered up byalmost any experience at all.

    And one of the things I settled on all those years ago wasthat one day, I wanted a drilling. Obviously I knew all the models andmanufacturers (it’s a short list), prices, cartridges, had the catalogues andbrochures, but of course no money and no opportunity to use such an item. Evenas things moved on little by little and I slowly, bit by bit managed to realisesome of my ambitions, helped along in no small part by Sir Tim Berners-Lee’sinvention of a means to contact others like me, the drilling remained a daydreamingtopic. It didn’t really make sense as a sole gun, and anyway they were rare andexpensive. No-one sells them here, and a new one costs a fortune to import.They costsa fortune even if you livenext door to the factory!

    But then I discovered eGun.de, and it occurred to me thatmost of the drillings in the world are probably in Germany, that there’s a sizeablesecond-hand market, and that no-one wants 16 bore shotguns or 7x57R rifles. Andbehold, I was right: that specification of drilling was coming up with someregularity for sale and selling for a tenth of the new price. Such are thevagaries of fashion! So the somewhat reluctant sale my wildfowling gun becauseI just didn’t need it anymore became an opportunity to realise a twentyyear-old dream, which is now only a few pesky forms away from my grasp.

    As you may also know, I have never yet shot a roe buck. I’vetried, but they didn’t feel like giving themselves up. Now I wonder whether maybethe Cosmos means for me to do this with the drilling, because the buck isn’tdestined for the current Pine Marten, but rather for that boy drawing dreams ofescape during lessons. I hope so. It would be an elegant narrative for if Iever needed to write that story.
    That's a lot of gun for the money. Don't think you will regret it at all. I have a combination in that calibre and have found getting hold of factory ammo for it a bit of a challenge.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by howa243 View Post
    That's a lot of gun for the money. Don't think you will regret it at all. I have a combination in that calibre and have found getting hold of factory ammo for it a bit of a challenge.
    Oh I don't think I'll regret it at all! Quite the opposite! I think it will be borderline impossible to find any factory ammunition but that's fine, I don't really need it, I just need some brass and some dies.

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