.223 Hornady ammo question

leebut

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys

another question for the world of Stalking Directory

Does any one know what black spherical powder Hornady use in their factory 55gr .223 ammo, my mates tikka only groups well with the Hornady factory ammo and were trying to do a bit of load development using other sized bullets and we'd like to use the same powder, he's tried using 90gr bullets though the rifle but they seem to be going side ways

any info would be much appreciated


regards


lee
 
Unlikely to be a straight replica of a powder available on the retail market unfortunately

i spent a while replicating Norma 130gr sp rounds using n160.
doubt it will be identical but does the trick!

try a variety of powders in the n130/133, h322, rl7 range
 
Hi,

If that's a tikka 595 then its not the powder. A lot of them including mine have the wrong twist ( too slow or too fast - cannot remember) to stabilise much over 60gr bullets. The rounds end up going all over the place.

Vap
 
Try H-322 or H-335 powders and yes, use the proper bullet. The only reason a person would shoot 90 grain bullets in a standard .223 is because he didn't know better. Maybe it's his loading that is causing the problem with lighter bullets? The powder is the least of his problems. Tell him to look hard at the Hornady round and, powder aside, try to replicate it. Full Length resize. Trim to uniform length. Load with an appropriate charge of appropriate powder, seat carefully to recommended OAL and crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. That will get him as close to factory ammo as he can get.

I find it amazing that people sometimes try to duplicate a kick-a$$ factory load by neck sizing, seating the bullet to .010" off the rifling....and doing everything the factory doesn't do while fretting over what powder is used in the factory offering.~Muir
 
thanks for the info

think my mates ok with the principles of reloading as he reloads his .308 Barnard action to shoot 1000yrds at diggle more often than not he finishes in the top three or four every fortnight, along with his .338 lapua magnum which he won the fly shoot at diggle the other week so his reloading skills aren't the problem, the problem he's been having is that He bought this Tikka T3 Tac in .223 some months back but grouping have been not good to say the least this rifle was supposed to have a 1 in 8 twist barrel so he could shoot the heavier bullets but looks like he's been sold a 1 in 12 as it doesn't like 90 gr bullets but does seem to like some of the 55 gr, we chrono'd all the shots which were all around the 2900 fps to 3200 fps but the 90 gr bullets were doing an average of 2300 fps but flattening the primers which was worrying

it is still picky even on 55gr bullets we tried Remington 55 grain factory ammo then Seller and Belliot soft point 55gr next came the Federal American Eagle 55gr without much success and lastly we tried the Hornady 55 gr factory "Practice" steel cases ammo which gave good tight groups, this is why i am asking the question regarding the powder, we were hoping to replicate the load with 55 gr heads and a similar type powder to the factory ammo


many thanks


lee
 
thanks for the info

think my mates ok with the principles of reloading as he reloads his .308 Barnard action to shoot 1000yrds at diggle more often than not he finishes in the top three or four every fortnight, along with his .338 lapua magnum which he won the fly shoot at diggle the other week so his reloading skills aren't the problem, the problem he's been having is that He bought this Tikka T3 Tac in .223 some months back but grouping have been not good to say the least this rifle was supposed to have a 1 in 8 twist barrel so he could shoot the heavier bullets but looks like he's been sold a 1 in 12 as it doesn't like 90 gr bullets but does seem to like some of the 55 gr, we chrono'd all the shots which were all around the 2900 fps to 3200 fps but the 90 gr bullets were doing an average of 2300 fps but flattening the primers which was worrying

it is still picky even on 55gr bullets we tried Remington 55 grain factory ammo then Seller and Belliot soft point 55gr next came the Federal American Eagle 55gr without much success and lastly we tried the Hornady 55 gr factory "Practice" steel cases ammo which gave good tight groups, this is why i am asking the question regarding the powder, we were hoping to replicate the load with 55 gr heads and a similar type powder to the factory ammo


many thanks


lee

Not to pee on your buddy's pant cuffs, but shooting and reloading are different. I don't know what kind 90 grain bullets he was using but the Sierra Match King's, for instance, require a 1: 6.5" twist to stabilize and at best IIRC and that Tikka is a 1-8" twist so he was headed for failure there from the start.

I don't know how your friend loaded the ammo he tested but I can tell you that the steel cased ammo usually has a huge amount of neck tension. Were I he, I would do as I advised earlier: FL resize, seat to recommended spec and crimp. H322 or H335 will work well.~Muir
 
I've tried all sorts of powders in my 223, TAC,Xterminator,H335, N133 and benchmark. All produce great results if the bullet weight is right. Mine likes 52gr amax- 60gr v max. 223 is a great round to load for and not fussy about powders. Lack of bullet stability more likely as discussed due to rifle than powder IMHO

BE
 
90g in a 223 is a very specialist bullet with a very specialised rifle and loading processes.

id stick to around 40-60 g unless your rifle has a 1-9 or 1-8 twist barrel in which case you can go up to 69g in 1-9 or 75/77/80g in a 1-8 ?

it sounds like your trying to make the 223 something it isn't ?
 
thanks for the info

think my mates ok with the principles of reloading as he reloads his .308 Barnard action to shoot 1000yrds at diggle more often than not he finishes in the top three or four every fortnight, along with his .338 lapua magnum which he won the fly shoot at diggle the other week so his reloading skills aren't the problem, the problem he's been having is that He bought this Tikka T3 Tac in .223 some months back but grouping have been not good to say the least this rifle was supposed to have a 1 in 8 twist barrel so he could shoot the heavier bullets but looks like he's been sold a 1 in 12 as it doesn't like 90 gr bullets but does seem to like some of the 55 gr, we chrono'd all the shots which were all around the 2900 fps to 3200 fps but the 90 gr bullets were doing an average of 2300 fps but flattening the primers which was worrying

it is still picky even on 55gr bullets we tried Remington 55 grain factory ammo then Seller and Belliot soft point 55gr next came the Federal American Eagle 55gr without much success and lastly we tried the Hornady 55 gr factory "Practice" steel cases ammo which gave good tight groups, this is why i am asking the question regarding the powder, we were hoping to replicate the load with 55 gr heads and a similar type powder to the factory ammo


many thanks


lee

Won the fly shoot did he ? What class ?

90gr in .223 ? Why ? That's pretty specialised, requiring a seriously fast twist, and as far as I'm aware, the only 'factory' gun with tight enough (possibly) twist rates are the NEA15's at 1-7" but that's debatable.

55's in a 1-8" can be fussy as it's almost too fast, in a 1-8" you should be looking at the 69 gr smk's or similar.

The tikka will say on the barrel if it's a 1-8" twist, and yes, they will run the 'heavier' bullets, but not the 'heaviest' ones.
 
Getting down to the brass tacks. I shot Hornady grain bullets from my Tikka 1-8 over H322. Sub MOA. FL resized, trimmed. loaded to SAAMI oal and crimped. It's not that hard to make shoot.~Muir
 
I think were all going off at tangent with the reloading here the tikka is defo stamped 1-8 I've checked with him today

the original question regarding what powder is in the Hornady steel cased ammo is what I'm after we use quick loader software so can find almost every powder available on the planet and make working loads from these, and i did know that steel cased ammo is tight at the neck due to them being steel, the way this thread is going people are implying that everybody is a numpty except for them!!!!

my point about my mate reloading his .308 and .338 was to say that if he shoots well at a all ranges from 500 out to 1000 yard at Diggle with his home loads his ability to actually reload wouldn't be the problem
 
I think were all going off at tangent with the reloading here the tikka is defo stamped 1-8 I've checked with him today

the original question regarding what powder is in the Hornady steel cased ammo is what I'm after we use quick loader software so can find almost every powder available on the planet and make working loads from these, and i did know that steel cased ammo is tight at the neck due to them being steel, the way this thread is going people are implying that everybody is a numpty except for them!!!!

my point about my mate reloading his .308 and .338 was to say that if he shoots well at a all ranges from 500 out to 1000 yard at Diggle with his home loads his ability to actualy reload wouldn't be the problem

yet he tries 90 bullets in a 1-8 barrel when a tiny bit of research would show 1-6.5 is required?
 
I think were all going off at tangent with the reloading here the tikka is defo stamped 1-8 I've checked with him today

the original question regarding what powder is in the Hornady steel cased ammo is what I'm after we use quick loader software so can find almost every powder available on the planet and make working loads from these, and i did know that steel cased ammo is tight at the neck due to them being steel, the way this thread is going people are implying that everybody is a numpty except for them!!!!

my point about my mate reloading his .308 and .338 was to say that if he shoots well at a all ranges from 500 out to 1000 yard at Diggle with his home loads his ability to actually reload wouldn't be the problem

1:8" is the same as my old one.
I understand about your references, but someone who learned reloading with the intent of shooting 1000 yard may not be privy to what it takes to make factory ammunition, and why factories load the way they do. Powder is the least of his worries. Wondering what powder they use is wasting effort: good powders for the 223 are everywhere. I listed my two favorites but there are numerous others. Instead of powder selection (tho it should be an appropriate powder) He should be looking at how the rounds were assembled and trying to duplicate it.

Full length resizing to try to duplicate the external case dimensions of he factory new case.
Trimming to length (he probably does that by habit)
Seating to factory spec OAL.
Using a crimp. (In steel cased rounds this often a 'chemical' crimp which is essentially a laquer on the bullet shank inside the neck. I don't know if Hornady uses this as I have never seen the steel cased rounds.) Most factory ammo has some form of crimp. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is the only one to use.

If he does this he probably has a very good shot at finding a load that will replicate that Hornady steel cased load.

Unfortunately -as i mentioned elsewhere- many shooters on this quest also burn the midnight oil trying to find what powder a company uses and it is, truly, a lesser component of the load structure. Ignoring the actual physical properties of the load they want to duplicate, they would still load to X-thou from the rifling after neck sizing only and wonder at their less than hoped for results -blaming the lack of an identical powder.

I hope you buddy gets it worked out.~Muir
 
I think were all going off at tangent with the reloading here the tikka is defo stamped 1-8 I've checked with him today

the original question regarding what powder is in the Hornady steel cased ammo is what I'm after we use quick loader software so can find almost every powder available on the planet and make working loads from these, and i did know that steel cased ammo is tight at the neck due to them being steel, the way this thread is going people are implying that everybody is a numpty except for them!!!!

my point about my mate reloading his .308 and .338 was to say that if he shoots well at a all ranges from 500 out to 1000 yard at Diggle with his home loads his ability to actually reload wouldn't be the problem



I'd still like to know exactly what he (supposedly) won at the fly shoot.

And loading 338 for 1000 yds is not only a waste, but also as easy as making bubbles in the bath by farting.
 
thanks for the info

think my mates ok with the principles of reloading as he reloads his .308 Barnard action to shoot 1000yrds at diggle more often than not he finishes in the top three or four every fortnight, along with his .338 lapua magnum which he won the fly shoot at diggle the other week so his reloading skills aren't the problem, the problem he's been having is that He bought this Tikka T3 Tac in .223 some months back but grouping have been not good to say the least this rifle was supposed to have a 1 in 8 twist barrel so he could shoot the heavier bullets but looks like he's been sold a 1 in 12 as it doesn't like 90 gr bullets but does seem to like some of the 55 gr, we chrono'd all the shots which were all around the 2900 fps to 3200 fps but the 90 gr bullets were doing an average of 2300 fps but flattening the primers which was worrying

it is still picky even on 55gr bullets we tried Remington 55 grain factory ammo then Seller and Belliot soft point 55gr next came the Federal American Eagle 55gr without much success and lastly we tried the Hornady 55 gr factory "Practice" steel cases ammo which gave good tight groups, this is why i am asking the question regarding the powder, we were hoping to replicate the load with 55 gr heads and a similar type powder to the factory ammo


many thanks


lee

As you shoot at DIGGLE speak to Scotsman Laurie he specialises in shooting .223 to 1'000yds and is a wealth of knowledge as he writes in the shooting Mags he will tell you what you are doing wrong.
 
Although Sierra quotes a 1-6.5" twist barrel needed for its 90s, this is actually faster than needed. 1 in 7" to a slowest value of 7.5" works and the optimum is likely just over 1-7". None of the 90s will stabilise in a true 1-8", not even the Sierra MK which is the shortest of the three models available.

Equally important as twist rate is the chamber's freebore. When I shot 90gn Bergers in long-range FTR, the rifle was built around a single bullet, the 90gn berger VLD with 0.24-inch FB giving a cartridge OAL of 2.7" compared to the SAAMI max value of 2.26". In a 31-inch barrel, the little cartridge would give these very high-BC needle shaped bullets just over 2,900 fps making the cartridge competitive with .308 Win back in 2011 - it wouldn't be today, or only barely given 0.308" bullet developments and new powders.

It was accurate, and very nice to shoot - hardly any recoil in an 18lb rested rifle. However, it's a very specialist business and everything has to be 100%, both rifle and ammunition components. Even then, those who've tried it haven't always had good results. It's a pain to load as the reloading process is so time-consuming. I advise most newcomers to F-Class (FTR division) to opt for 308 Win instead, much easier. There are only three 90gn bullets now in production - Sierra MK which actually isn't a good long-range choice, the Berger 90gn VLD which many people have trouble getting to group well, and the JLK 90gn VLD which is no longer available here as nobody imports them and JLK's delivery times suck anyway. So far as I know, most - more likely all - sporting users of these bullets load them in larger cased cartridges, primarily the .22 BR which makes a very flat-shooting super-accurate fox outfit. Even there, few use 90s, the 75gn A-Max is a better choice as a pest bullet given its frangible construction.
 
Hi Laurie and all others who have replied

thank you for the info regarding the bullet, powder, cases etc the rifle was never going to be used at Diggle for a 1000yrds especially seeings its only got a factory short 16" or 20" barrel, this was primarily going to be used at between 50 and 100 yards with the 90grns to deliver a hefty punch.

Muir when he pullet the factory bullets to check the powder weight he did struggle to get the heads off using a RCBS bullet collect they either crimp the steel case or like you say chemical seal them with a lacquer the metal cases as you know are lacquered anyway


cheers


Lee
 
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