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Thread: Reliable, consistent powder meausre/dropper

  1. #1

    Reliable, consistent powder meausre/dropper

    Just new into reloading, made my first steps with help from a friend and his gear. We made up 6 diffrent loads ( 3 rounds each load) for my 243. The man uses a RCBS 10-10 scale. It took very long to make up these 18 bullets. Reading my previuos topics from this week and a lot more on this forum, I want to make it easier. Is there a traditional powder measure that is reliable throwing loads to use straight in the case without measuring ? I mean checking maybe 1 in 10 rounds or so. I also doubt the possibility to have the scale always 100% straight at the zero level. Maybe the Targetmatser will help here. But would prefer a digital scale as this has much better visibilty and a lot easier to read the values.
    Is there a powder measure that you can adjust on 1 load, using an electronic scale, and that will throw the same load again and again?
    A man advised me to buy the Lee meausures ( unexpensive) and buy one for every load and leave it untouched once it throws the correct load.

    Seeing the quickness of the Lyman Gen6 ( and Gen5) on the net stays appealing. It's possible to work up loads with ( 0.4 in between) in seconds.

  2. #2
    The Targetmaster comes with a small USB camera that just plugs into a computer so you can easily see the scale. I use a Lee dipper to pour a nearly measure into the pan, press the button and it's done by the time I've seated the bullet into the previous case.

    OK, it may take a bit of time adjusting the cut_off knob to get the pointer up to the dead centre mark but easy enough to trickle a bit more powder til you're there.......and its a bloody sight cheaper than buying a DPS when you've already got a set of high quality scales in the 10-10's.

    My Targetmaster/5-10 combo gives better results/consistency than the Pact(rcbs) Charge master combo I've used for several years. Ive got the set-up on a couple of spike leveled marble chopping boards from Argos.

    I would post a pic but I'm on the tablet thingy n its a pain in the Arri's..perhaps later.

    Cheers
    Fizz

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hales Smut View Post
    Just new into reloading, made my first steps with help from a friend and his gear. We made up 6 diffrent loads ( 3 rounds each load) for my 243. The man uses a RCBS 10-10 scale. It took very long to make up these 18 bullets. Reading my previuos topics from this week and a lot more on this forum, I want to make it easier. Is there a traditional powder measure that is reliable throwing loads to use straight in the case without measuring ? I mean checking maybe 1 in 10 rounds or so. I also doubt the possibility to have the scale always 100% straight at the zero level. Maybe the Targetmatser will help here. But would prefer a digital scale as this has much better visibilty and a lot easier to read the values.
    Is there a powder measure that you can adjust on 1 load, using an electronic scale, and that will throw the same load again and again?
    A man advised me to buy the Lee meausures ( unexpensive) and buy one for every load and leave it untouched once it throws the correct load.

    Seeing the quickness of the Lyman Gen6 ( and Gen5) on the net stays appealing. It's possible to work up loads with ( 0.4 in between) in seconds.

    Geez. Youre really trying to talk yourself into something electronic, aren't you?
    Volumetric powder measures will never be 100% accurate but some come very close. The better the measure, the better the results. Harrell measures are $250 US and are exceptionally good. The Jones Precision is better but runs north of $500 US and there is a 6 month wait to get one. (It is the top, repeatable, bench rest measures) Price isn't the determiner of quality. I have a Redding "Precision Match" measure I have publicly reviled many times as being one of the biggest pieces of cr&p I have ever used to measure powder with and not worth the $260 they cost. I leave it set for fine pistol powder at my 45acp charge weight. At $30 US the Lee is far better. Oh! The 'man' was wrong. Lee's are very repeatable. I also use a Lee.

    The Target Master is an enviable set up. If I had a reason to own one I would but I have a Seeley-Masker Bench Rest Measure (1960's vintage and out of production) and the Jones Precision. You are really hung up on gadgetry and this is one hi-tech item that will fit your needs: Quick, simple, precise. It also has electronic components, though, and I have an innate distrust of electronics. There are none in my reloading room other than the overhead lights and the flashlights I use to check charges.

    I am curious: As a new reloader why do you need to have charges dropped quickly? Do you load large quantities of ammo? These are things you might ask yourself before you choose. I have a feeling though, that you have already made up your mind. ~Muir

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    Geez. Youre really trying to talk yourself into something electronic, aren't you? ~Muir
    Not really. As I don't own any equipment, I have to start from zero and buy everything. A Gen 5 or 6 is about the same price as a 10-10 scale and a powder measure, so this is the reason I think about it.
    Last week when reloading, my friend didn't use the uniflow measure as we only made 3 rounds for every load. So we "handloaded" the brass pan on the 10-10 scale for every round. My impression was, that it's very hard to get the scale fully "zero" "level" every time. Sometimes the "needle" is 1 or 2 degrees( of a circle) to high or to low. Really difficult to see clearly and adjust 100% perfect. I hope you understand what I try to explain. Not always easy in another language, when it's technical. A digital screen says clearly 40.7 ( as an example). That slight imperfection on that 10-10 scale might be neglectable. I don't know?

    It doesn't have to be quick, but the way we did it was very slow. When I watched Thomas Haugland's youtubeclip on Bulk Reloading, it surprised me how easy and quick he works.

    The man that sold me the powder and primers, uses the Lee Perfect Powder Meausre. He told me they are cheap and good. He has several in use, one for every load he makes. Maybe this is the way to go. Adjusting one on the desired load (using a scale) for every rifle ( only have two at the moment) and loading straight into the case. Checking one load every 10 rounds?
    Last edited by Hales Smut; 19-10-2014 at 15:55.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hales Smut View Post
    Not really. As I don't own any equipment, I have to start from zero and buy everything. A Gen 5 or 6 is about the same price as a 10-10 scale and a powder measure, so this is the reason I think about it.
    Last week when reloading, my friend didn't use the uniflow measure as we only made 3 rounds for every load. So we "handloaded" the brass pan on the 10-10 scale for every round. My impression was, that it's very hard to get the scale fully "zero" "level" every time. Sometimes the "needle" is 1 or 2 degrees( of a circle) to high or to low. Really difficult to see clearly and adjust 100% perfect. I hope you understand what I try to explain. Not always easy in another language, when it's technical. A digital screen says clearly 40.7 ( as an example). That slight imperfection on that 10-10 scale might be neglectable. I don't know?

    It doesn't have to be quick, but the way we did it was very slow. When I watched Thomas Haugland's youtubeclip on Bulk Reloading, it surprised me how easy and quick he works.

    The man that sold me the powder and primers, uses the Lee Perfect Powder Meausre. He told me they are cheap and good. He has several in use, one for every load he makes. Maybe this is the way to go. Adjusting one on the desired load (using a scale) for every rifle ( only have two at the moment) and loading straight into the case. Checking one load every 10 rounds?
    Don't take my chiding to heart, Amigo. You just seem to be working hard towards the Electronic measure!

    As to the scales not lining up exactly being 1 or 2 degrees off. That can be expected, right? Think about it: Unless you are willing to cut off a piece of a powder kernel to make it come out exactly right there are most likely going to be cases where the needle is a degree one way or the other from dead center on the pointer. My Ohaus Dial-o-Grain can have the needle completely to the side of the hashmark and yet this represents only 1/10 of a grain. This is plenty accurate for all shooting. You are stressing about something of no consequence. Powder charges for bench rest shooters are measured by volume, not weighed for each load. They use a good volumetric measure (like the Jones) corresponding to a specific charge weight but still, they don't weigh charges at the range as a practice.

    I can dump a charge and trickle it to level on my scale in about 5 seconds if I choose to do so. I don't know if i shoot as much as you do but i shoot about every other night -at least a few rounds off hand. I load maybe 100 rounds a week? 200 at the most if you count my girlfriend's rifle and assorted handgun ammo. I'm not ashamed of the groups I fire but i never trickle charges anymore. A high grade measure eliminated that need. Even with the Lee I don't check every 10 rounds. I simply make a visual check of the powder level in the case. Keep the hopper at least half full to insure uniform 'packing' in the drum.

    The electronic stuff is good til it goes down. It seems that 3-4 years without a problem is a good average. Then?? As I said in a different post, there is no time when not having a beam scale is a good idea. Like dies it has always been considered a must for reloaders. If for nothing else than to verify the accuracy of the Lyman Gen what-ever.** Or, if you get really anal or bored, you can weigh bullets on a winter's night when there isn't anything on the television. If you, then, believe this, you are half way to the Target master which is a great system mating the best of the beam scale to the best of electronic speed.~Muir

    (** Ever wonder why they took six 'generations' to get it right? And will there be a seventh?? )
    Last edited by Muir; 19-10-2014 at 17:05.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    (** Ever wonder why they took six 'generations' to get it right? And will there be a seventh?? )

    LOL!

  7. #7
    Lee only made one design.
    AT THE AGE OF 50 I DECIDED I WAS GOING TO GROW OLD F***ING DISGRACEFULLY

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sikadog View Post
    Lee only made one design.
    Lee make the powder thrower, and auto disc measure.
    Both are very good for the price.

    I have several throwers, one set for the .222, and one set for the .308, which, usefully, with two throws, works out just right for the .338 too
    Sako TRG-42 folder .338LM🔫 Sako TRG-22 .308/.260🔫 Tikka 595 .222(NV'd up) 🔫 AR15 .223/300BLK 🔫Franchi 12g 520 9shot🔫Baikal .410 stealth🔫Ruger #1.243

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  9. #9
    Pics as promised earlier........ a Goggle search on Targetmaster will bring up plenty of YT vids of it in action, including one or two showing the effects of adding extra kernels of powder to give you a good idea of the accuracy of beam scales.





    Plus...... My apologies, I've had a pm from Allan (aka 1066) at Targetmaster pointing out that the USB camera is in fact only supplied as part of the scales accurisation/upgrade package. Unfortunately, he isn't undertaking any more work on scales at the moment as it's quite time consuming. He's recently posted on here or UKV that there's getting on for a days work in upgrading the scales and there's only so many spare days in the week.....and he's got other projects on the go. But I'm sure there's plenty of USB cams/webcams around that will do the job..... just a matter of getting the lens in line with the pointer on the scales.

    Cheers


    fizz

  10. #10
    The issue with really accurate use of beam scales is parallax - ie if the user's head position is at angle to the scale what looks level varies according to that position. The Target Master and Allan's mod that puts a small bracket onto the scale body to clip a mini webcam onto level with the beam pointer overcome these issues. Another is to have the scales at eye-level straight in front of one's face.

    However, whilst many 1,000 yard bench-rest and F-Class shooters now regulate powder charges to plus or minus 0.02gn (a single powder kernel), nothing like that sort of consistency is required for loading most short-range sporting ammuntion. Few factory rifles appreciate or show any significant benefits (often ANY benefit) from really precisely made ammo. Some years back in a test that was published I loaded two 25 round batches of .223 Rem with Alliant Reloder 7 (I think) and 52gn match bullets, one on a single stage press and every charge weighed and adjusted to the best of my ability; the other lot on a cheapo Lee Turret press (the old smaller type really designed for pistol cartridges) with charges dispensed by a Lee Auto-Disk measure whose capacity had been increased by the factory double-disk kit and was automatically press operated with a rifle 'Powder-Through' die. The load had been previously worked up and had given good short-range results.

    Checking some 'thrown' charge weights during the process showed they had a much larger variance than the individually weighed examples. Nevertheless in subsequent 100-yard testing, the 5-group average of the Turret Press / Auto-Disk produced rounds was actually slightly smaller than that of the laboriously produced cartridges on a large single-stage press and individual charge weighing! These were fired in a heavy-barrel Remington 700VS that would group ~ three-quarters inch with the odd result down at half-inch at 100. The chronograph gave the Turret Press ammo a significantly larger velocity spread, but if this ammo had been loaded for 'foxing' say, there would have been no difference between the lots in shots up to 200, even 250 yards.

    So, don't get overly involved in ultimate charge weight consistency unless your shooting needs it. Most mechanical powder measures are consistent enough. An important factor is keeping the powder column in the reservoir topped up and adopting a very consistent operating procedure. Many mechanical measures perform better with 'knocking' - ie after the handle is turned to fill the metering cavity, the measure body is tapped once or twice with a heavy wooden spoon, spanner or whatever to settle the kernels and allow slightly more into the chamber. My Harrel 'Premium Benchrest Measure' sees variations reduce from extremes of 0.3gn to 0.2gn using this technique.
    Last edited by Laurie; 20-10-2014 at 13:42.

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