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Thread: could this be the end of high end scopes?

  1. #1

    could this be the end of high end scopes?

    in my eyes scopes are rated on 3 things clarity of glass, how well it holds its zero and the twilight factor and when ever i bought a scope these are always what ive looked for along with at a guess 95% of other stalkers which leaves me with only magnification to look at after that and this is just down to personal preferance. Over the years ive had a fair few different scopes most of which have been schmidts but now ive settled on a ziess victory diavari 2.5-10x50 t* ir which is now retailing at around £1300 with a quick look on google. So here i am with £1300 worth of scope which im more than happy with then a leaflet lands through my door this morning from scott country with all there night vision gear in including the atn x-sight which is being billed as the 1st true day and night scope which got me thinking how well does it stack up against my ziess, 1st was the clarity and atn are saying its fitted with a colour hd screen which im sure is good but i would be suprised if it beat the glass on my ziess 2nd is how well does it hold its zero and seeing as its a digital cross hair how can it ever be knocked out of zero? my ziess on the other hand is mechanical and can be knocked out of zero so thats a mark for the x-sight 3rd is the twilight factor and the atn is night vision so how can my ziess ever trump that finaly was the magnification and the atn comes in 3-12 or 5-18 so a good range there, so im giving the atn 2-1 score over basicaly any standard scope and what i havnt mention is the price bascaliy half the price of my ziess so is this the begining of the end for high end scopes? ok so maybe not but im sure its got others thinking the same as me

  2. #2
    Being nv would it be legal for deer?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by palmer_mike View Post
    Being nv would it be legal for deer?
    if it was used during daylight hours i cant see why not?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by palmer_mike View Post
    Being nv would it be legal for deer?
    No different than a digital camera, until you add IR, then it's 'artificial light source'
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir-lamp-alot View Post
    if it was used during daylight hours i cant see why not?
    Agreed. There is nothing to say you can't use such a device - just not outside the normal shooting hours.
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  6. #6
    SD Regular Mr. Gain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir-lamp-alot View Post
    In my eyes scopes are rated on 3 things: clarity of glass; how well it holds its zero; and the twilight factor, and whenever I have bought a scope these are always what I've looked for (along with, at a guess, 95% of other stalkers), which leaves me with only magnification to look at after that, and this is just down to personal preference.

    Over the years I've had a fair few different scopes, most of which have been Schmidts, but now I've settled on a Zeiss Victory Diavari 2.5-10x50 t* IR, which is now retailing at around £1300 (with a quick look on Google).

    So here I am with £1300 worth of scope, which I'm more than happy with. Then a leaflet lands through my door this morning from Scott Country with all their night-vision gear in, including the ATN X-Sigh,t which is being billed as the 1st true day-and-night scope... which got me thinking: how well does it stack up against my Zeiss?


    • 1st was the clarity, and ATN are saying it's fitted with a colour HD screen, which I'm sure is good but I would be surprised if it beat the glass on my Zeiss.
    • 2nd is how well does it hold its zero? Seeing as it's a digital cross-hair, how can it ever be knocked out of zero? My Zeiss on the other hand is mechanical and can be knocked out of zero. So that's a mark for the X-Sight.
    • 3rd is the twilight factor. The ATN is night-vision so how can my Zeiss ever trump that?
    • Finally was the magnification. The ATN comes in 3X-12X or 5X-18X, so a good range there.
    • So I'm giving the ATN 2-1 score over basically any standard scope.


    What I haven't mentioned is the price: basically half the price of my Zeiss; so is this the beginning of the end for high-end scopes? O.K. so maybe not, but I'm sure it's got others thinking the same as me
    It's interesting that the X-Sight has prompted you to think this way. My thought are as follows:


    1. No digital image can get close to the resolution of top quality multi-coated glass lenses. Zeiss scopes have some of the best available.
    2. As the light goes, as long as the Zeiss provides a usable image it will be a better image. After that, any shot taken at a deer is unlikely to be legal.
    3. I have never had a high-end European scope in good mounts lose zero. For example, the S&B on my Heym has held zero for over 15 years. I wouldn't expect anything digital even to last that long.
    4. ATN have a track record of over-advertising and under-delivering on performance, quality and back-up. This is not the case with Zeiss, or any other manufacturer of good daylight scopes. In fact, I can't think of a brand in the NV field with a poorer reputation than ATN.


    I may be wrong about the X-Sight. It may be more than a Drone Pro copy with a gimmick-laden chip on board (GPS/wi-fi), and Scott Country presumably wouldn't have taken it on if they thought it was going to prove a customer-support nightmare... in which case: hooray!

    Even if it's all it's cracked up to be, however, I can't see Zeiss losing any sleep over it as most of their customers only hunt by natural light, and in that environment glass rules.
    Last edited by Mr. Gain; 20-10-2014 at 20:48.
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  7. #7
    Electronics have come a long way from the stuff I started out on, but I very much doubt that a gadget like this,good as it is, would still be going in 10 or 20 or.... years. As Mr.Gain said above.
    But a good scope will.
    Last edited by private fraser; 20-10-2014 at 21:32.
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  8. #8
    There will never be an end to the type of scopes you have mentioned, but i suspect with the way of the world we live in, night vision equipment will be banned one day.
    Cheers
    Richard

  9. #9
    I presume that the image is captured on a chip just as a digital camera, and these are mechanically fixed - normally glued - so could be just as prone to damage as a mechanical zero. Also, for all those people who have paid for high-end scopes, if the digital alternative is not significantly better are you really going to sell your scope at a reduced price or use it, and if looked after, would last you a lifetime? If the digital revolution was that rampant, then the value of high-end scopes would drop off a cliff. The real indication may be when the likes of Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss et al start to develop digital scopes themselves?

    Edit: a digital nv device still needs optics to get the light onto the chip, the better the optics the better the image.
    Last edited by Virbius; 21-10-2014 at 07:56. Reason: additional point

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Virbius View Post
    I presume that the image is captured on a chip just as a digital camera, and these are mechanically fixed - normally glued - so could be just as prone to damage as a mechanical zero. Also, for all those people who have paid for high-end scopes, if the digital alternative is not significantly better are you really going to sell your scope at a reduced price or use it, and if looked after, would last you a lifetime? If the digital revolution was that rampant, then the value of high-end scopes would drop off a cliff. The real indication may be when the likes of Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss et al start to develop digital scopes themselves?

    Edit: a digital nv device still needs optics to get the light onto the chip, the better the optics the better the image.
    I only use swarvoski Z6i scopes and tried the drone pro as a NV solution, what a load of crap. Just got a longbow and it's in a different league.

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