could this be the end of high end scopes?

sir-lamp-alot

Well-Known Member
in my eyes scopes are rated on 3 things clarity of glass, how well it holds its zero and the twilight factor and when ever i bought a scope these are always what ive looked for along with at a guess 95% of other stalkers which leaves me with only magnification to look at after that and this is just down to personal preferance. Over the years ive had a fair few different scopes most of which have been schmidts but now ive settled on a ziess victory diavari 2.5-10x50 t* ir which is now retailing at around £1300 with a quick look on google. So here i am with £1300 worth of scope which im more than happy with then a leaflet lands through my door this morning from scott country with all there night vision gear in including the atn x-sight which is being billed as the 1st true day and night scope which got me thinking how well does it stack up against my ziess, 1st was the clarity and atn are saying its fitted with a colour hd screen which im sure is good but i would be suprised if it beat the glass on my ziess 2nd is how well does it hold its zero and seeing as its a digital cross hair how can it ever be knocked out of zero? my ziess on the other hand is mechanical and can be knocked out of zero so thats a mark for the x-sight 3rd is the twilight factor and the atn is night vision so how can my ziess ever trump that finaly was the magnification and the atn comes in 3-12 or 5-18 so a good range there, so im giving the atn 2-1 score over basicaly any standard scope and what i havnt mention is the price bascaliy half the price of my ziess so is this the begining of the end for high end scopes? ok so maybe not but im sure its got others thinking the same as me
 
In my eyes scopes are rated on 3 things: clarity of glass; how well it holds its zero; and the twilight factor, and whenever I have bought a scope these are always what I've looked for (along with, at a guess, 95% of other stalkers), which leaves me with only magnification to look at after that, and this is just down to personal preference.

Over the years I've had a fair few different scopes, most of which have been Schmidts, but now I've settled on a Zeiss Victory Diavari 2.5-10x50 t* IR, which is now retailing at around £1300 (with a quick look on Google).

So here I am with £1300 worth of scope, which I'm more than happy with. Then a leaflet lands through my door this morning from Scott Country with all their night-vision gear in, including the ATN X-Sigh,t which is being billed as the 1st true day-and-night scope... which got me thinking: how well does it stack up against my Zeiss?


  • 1st was the clarity, and ATN are saying it's fitted with a colour HD screen, which I'm sure is good but I would be surprised if it beat the glass on my Zeiss.
  • 2nd is how well does it hold its zero? Seeing as it's a digital cross-hair, how can it ever be knocked out of zero? My Zeiss on the other hand is mechanical and can be knocked out of zero. So that's a mark for the X-Sight.
  • 3rd is the twilight factor. The ATN is night-vision so how can my Zeiss ever trump that?
  • Finally was the magnification. The ATN comes in 3X-12X or 5X-18X, so a good range there.
  • So I'm giving the ATN 2-1 score over basically any standard scope.

What I haven't mentioned is the price: basically half the price of my Zeiss; so is this the beginning of the end for high-end scopes? O.K. so maybe not, but I'm sure it's got others thinking the same as me

It's interesting that the X-Sight has prompted you to think this way. My thought are as follows:


  1. No digital image can get close to the resolution of top quality multi-coated glass lenses. Zeiss scopes have some of the best available.
  2. As the light goes, as long as the Zeiss provides a usable image it will be a better image. After that, any shot taken at a deer is unlikely to be legal.
  3. I have never had a high-end European scope in good mounts lose zero. For example, the S&B on my Heym has held zero for over 15 years. I wouldn't expect anything digital even to last that long.
  4. ATN have a track record of over-advertising and under-delivering on performance, quality and back-up. This is not the case with Zeiss, or any other manufacturer of good daylight scopes. In fact, I can't think of a brand in the NV field with a poorer reputation than ATN.

I may be wrong about the X-Sight. It may be more than a Drone Pro copy with a gimmick-laden chip on board (GPS/wi-fi), and Scott Country presumably wouldn't have taken it on if they thought it was going to prove a customer-support nightmare... in which case: hooray!

Even if it's all it's cracked up to be, however, I can't see Zeiss losing any sleep over it as most of their customers only hunt by natural light, and in that environment glass rules.
 
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Electronics have come a long way from the stuff I started out on, but I very much doubt that a gadget like this,good as it is, would still be going in 10 or 20 or.... years. As Mr.Gain said above.
But a good scope will.
 
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There will never be an end to the type of scopes you have mentioned, but i suspect with the way of the world we live in, night vision equipment will be banned one day.
Cheers
Richard
 
I presume that the image is captured on a chip just as a digital camera, and these are mechanically fixed - normally glued - so could be just as prone to damage as a mechanical zero. Also, for all those people who have paid for high-end scopes, if the digital alternative is not significantly better are you really going to sell your scope at a reduced price or use it, and if looked after, would last you a lifetime? If the digital revolution was that rampant, then the value of high-end scopes would drop off a cliff. The real indication may be when the likes of Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss et al start to develop digital scopes themselves?

Edit: a digital nv device still needs optics to get the light onto the chip, the better the optics the better the image.
 
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I presume that the image is captured on a chip just as a digital camera, and these are mechanically fixed - normally glued - so could be just as prone to damage as a mechanical zero. Also, for all those people who have paid for high-end scopes, if the digital alternative is not significantly better are you really going to sell your scope at a reduced price or use it, and if looked after, would last you a lifetime? If the digital revolution was that rampant, then the value of high-end scopes would drop off a cliff. The real indication may be when the likes of Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Zeiss et al start to develop digital scopes themselves?

Edit: a digital nv device still needs optics to get the light onto the chip, the better the optics the better the image.
I only use swarvoski Z6i scopes and tried the drone pro as a NV solution, what a load of crap. Just got a longbow and it's in a different league.
 
I only use swarvoski Z6i scopes and tried the drone pro as a NV solution, what a load of crap. Just got a longbow and it's in a different league.

But wouldn't you expect better performance from the longbow, it is considerably more expensive after all.
 
I have a 5 to 18 ATN scope. Theory is great but if the zero needs to be set away from the original zero as the magnification is increased the new zero disappears towards the edge of the screen and eventually off screen. i.e. the new zero does not remain centered on the viewing screen.
I can only use my ATN at 1 or 2x with the cross-hairs view-able.
Pixellation occurs at around 10x and gets worse.
Not worth the money unless these problems are cured.
 
Further to my post of yesterday I have been informed by Scott Country that a firmware update is to be available next week to cure the wandering zero. The cross-hairs will stay in the middle of the screen regardless of the magnification.
 
Deer shooting is a sun up sun down thing, hour before and hour after, I guess in between these dark hours is the illeagal time, the scope in question does sound good, hopefully bring down the profiteering prices of these expensive scopes
 
I think ATN will keep de-bugging and improving these until they do what they should have done in the first place. So if you have one, don't despair, it'll only take a couple of upgrades and a few months before its performance matches its specification.:fib:
 
I am sure if you are caught with a NV scope after dark you might find your self in court I don't want to be the first test case. Things have come a long way and I am sure we will no one way or the other soon as the law makers will need to decide how this will pan out.
 
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