Cad number for shoot or cull etc

Overlay

Well-Known Member
Hi guys

just had two cad numbers for today with Surrey police for rabbit culls, all as normal, until I E mailed back to advise the culls are complete and leaving site.

got the usual thank you for letting us know, will amend cad. AND. Also from today you must supply full details of the owner and a contact phone number. ???????

chap I know also in Surrey had this today as well. ?

anyone else had this

As far as I am aware it us not a requirement to gain a cad number prior to going out unless it is in a footpath or road vicinity or areas of high risk

any thoughts

phil
 
It is nearly always not a requirement to inform the police, so simply don't bother...The exception obviously being places where it is required as part of the lease/job - Airports, Civil Nuclear etc.
 
We have a field which is bordered by the river on one side and main road and houses on the other. Don't use any firearms in this field but allow a guy to shoot the rabbits with his air rifle so long as he shoots away from the road but the Police still insist that we contact them and let them know when we will be shooting in this field so a log can be raised to prevent firearms officers being called out when someone from the houses reports seeing someone with a gun.
The last time the chap forgot to phone the Police they ended up grabbing him as he went through the gate and he had to contact me to talk with the Police.

Apparently some woman had phoned the Police stating that she wanted to walk her dogs over the field but couldn't because someone was sat in the field with a gun so I advised the officer that he needed to now inform the woman that there was no public access in the field and she was indeed trespassing but I don't think that interested him.
I know its not a legal requirement but it just saves all the hassle from the Police and worse than that it could be the farmer getting knocked out of bed in the early hours which he would not like.
 
Hi EF
just got a return call from surrey police

They have found and read my e mail and the response from HQ. Apparently they are not aware of any changes in the requirements for a cad request and asked if I can continue as normal ?

i always request a cad on every outing wherever I will be to make sure all who should know will know, to smooth the rough edges in the event of a complaint.

cheers


phil
 
Unless there really is some pressing need I categorical refuse to start doing this.
I can see the rationale and thinking behind it but to my mind it causes more hassle than it prevents.

Once you call in and create a CAD (for doing something complete legal) that CAD sits there until resulted.
If it dosnt get resulted then they need to start looking for a result, whether that be phoning you or indeed the land owner, or sending out a car to make sure you haven't shot yourself.

And incidentally, should a call be received about someone with a gun, they will most likely send someone out anyway. Therefore to my mind it serves little purpose other than to add a little more bureaucratic nonsense.

Until it becomes a legal requirement, you can count me out.
 
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Unless there really is some pressing need I categorical refuse to start doing this.
I can see the rationale and thinking behind it but to my mind it causes more hassle than it prevents.

Once you call in and create a CAD (for doing something complete legal) that CAD sits there until resulted.
If it dosnt get resulted then they need to start looking for a result, whether that be phoning you or indeed the land owner, or sending out a car to make sure you haven't shot yourself.

And incidentally, should a call be received about someone with a gun, they will most likely send someone out anyway. Therefore to my mind it serves little purpose other than to add a little more bureaucratic nonsense.

Until it becomes a legal requirement, you can count me out.



Hi Cadex

just got a reply from my e mail

" it states that to make the cull undertaken to be LAWFUL the marksman must supply all the details of the cull" which includes the true contact details and contact address of the owner to enable them to be able them to check as required at any time

i have replied asking for the criterior required now, to have to apply and or the specific areas whereupon You do not need to apply for a cad number.

at the moment this " as far as I am aware only Surrey police" are implementing this requirement

cheers

phil
 
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We used to inform every time we went out lamping until one night we finished phoned in told the police we had finished then got a phone call at three in the morning to ask if we were still out and if we were shootin 30 miles from where we stated.Not good after creeping back in without waking anyone
 
Philip, isn't this the sort of thing that BASC need to be made aware of? It sounds like 'your' police force have started to make up their own rules!
 
Unless there really is some pressing need I categorical refuse to start doing this.
I can see the rationale and thinking behind it but to my mind it causes more hassle than it prevents.

Once you call in and create a CAD (for doing something complete legal) that CAD sits there until resulted.
If it dosnt get resulted then they need to start looking for a result, whether that be phoning you or indeed the land owner, or sending out a car to make sure you haven't shot yourself.

And incidentally, should a call be received about someone with a gun, they will most likely send someone out anyway. Therefore to my mind it serves little purpose other than to add a little more bureaucratic nonsense.

Until it becomes a legal requirement, you can count me out.


Totally agree with this.

I don't have to phone the police to tell them I am going to undertake any other lawful activity.

Phillip. Where has this requirement come from? Is it a condition on your FAC? Is it some sort of written requirement of the land you shoot
? Or have Surrey police simply started to take the **** out of your good will?

Are you a member of BASC or NGO etc.? Maybe ask one of their legal bods for a clarification, in my opinion this is the sort of thing that should be nipped in the bud before it becomes a monster.
 
It is another good example of why you should not phone the police before you go out.
They now think it is normal and have started to add extra things. They will undoubtedly present there case that this should be procedure and everybody should do it, and that as people are doing it without complaint then it must be okay with us.
If a police officer grabbed me whilst walking in a field with a gun I'd tell him to take his hands off me or I'd lodge a complaint of assault. I'd then ask him what crime he believes is being or about to be commited.
As shooters we take enough rubbish without making things more difficult for ourselves.
 
What's required here is education.

1. Educate the police that its perfectly normal for folk to shoot in the countryside. If they want to know who is lawfully allowed to shoot there then get off their arses and speak to people it's called communicating, and don't overreact when some old granny phones in reporting a someone doing a little bit of rabbiting or stalking. There again perhaps modern policing doesn't rely upon speaking to people and knowing your patch.

2. Educate the general public who move into the country from the towns that people have been shooting for hundreds of years and there is no need to get paranoid when ever you see someone carrying on a LAWFUL activity. Learn about the countryside and start mixing with the local community.

3. Educate shooters to tell others that what they are doing is not illegal and tell them to P**s off when they are taking liberties.
 
The police do know that shooting is perfectly legal and statistically a very safe sport but due to the blame culture we now live in they can't ignore anyone who calls in with a concern about someone with a gun no matter how much of a crackpot they sound just in case it is someone up to no good. If they didn't check they'd get hung out to dry by the media and politicians if there was a problem.

if you think there may be issues with people calling in then either call the police and negate having them come out (if they're called) or don't call in but then don't get the hump if they do turn up. The officer who does turn out will be 99% sure you're doing something perfectly legal so will just want to check to keep his Sgt. happy, the last thing he wants is to be tramping round in the dark getting all his kit dirty to then end up having an argument with a legit shooter who wants to 'educate' him about his rights. By all means explain what you're doing is ok and legal but just don't get the hump and be argumentative for the sake of it.

I read a lot of posts on here and it's usually the same old faces that come up time and time again who seem to have grief with everyone they meet, be it police, FEOs, landowners, antis and you start to realise they they must just love to argue and can't just chill out and take the high road occasionally.
 
Hi guys

i have a full open certificate, as the guys who work with me have, with all the requirements for calibres from multi 22's up to 7.62 cal with no restrictions AOLQ, RTA, Humane dispatch the lot, that's required to run a wildlife management business, qualified up to the hilt with full blown insurance on my part all singing and dancing

no reason on my part whatsoever absolute for any reason for the email.

my reason to gain the Cad reference on some of the work is to complete the paper work request off of some of the clients health and safety requests. That's normal

i put through the two cad requests as normal for Saturday day and evening as this two areas have footpaths and sight access from a road, they came back as normal very quickly

" thanks very much for letting us know, here is your reference number please let us know when completed so we can inform the local officers" all as normal

when completed, I sent off the e mail to close them down as completed and by return got the request to in future you must supply the site owners current address and a 24/7 contact number so they can contact them

Quote. " this to make the use of firearms LAWFUL. ??????????

i immediately e mailed them back with a request to clarify this and was told dont worry about it, just carry on as normal

hour later got another e mail to say you must comply to be lawful from a HQ source

I have sent an e mail back requesting the criteria for a cad and that is it now a legal requirement rather than an advisory for all outings requiring firearms use in ANY area rather than in an area of or nay be overlooked by the public, that could cause distress or a noise issue, near a footpath or road etc etc etc

I am awaiting a reply

cheers


phil
 
At one time, I would ring in every time that I went shooting, and then again, when I had finished, up until the time that a police officer came out into the field I was shooting in, because someone had reported a man with a gun. We had a quite long talk, during which, he called in to cancel the helicopter and firearms section. It turned out, that within Humberside at least, whether you call in to get a log number or not, if someone calls the police about somebody using a gun, they are duty bound to investigate. The officer that came out to me was a shooter too, and so was fully aware of the likely situation.
The only time I ring in for a log/cad number now, is when I am carrying out urban fox control. Quite a large section of my risk assessment and method statement included actions taken in the event of an unexpected police call out.
 
No one is talking about getting the hump or getting on a high horse nun-hunter it's all about communication, speaking to people. Hence the NGO organising training days for police forces to explain what shooting is all about as many officers these days haven't the foggiest about shooting and what is and what isn't normal and legal.
 
No one is talking about getting the hump or getting on a high horse nun-hunter it's all about communication, speaking to people. Hence the NGO organising training days for police forces to explain what shooting is all about as many officers these days haven't the foggiest about shooting and what is and what isn't normal and legal.
I'm not saying you were but this has come up numerous times and there clearly are people who do 'get the hump' when being questioned by anyone about what they're doing.

Education is key but police forces are saving money so closing rural stations and so response is likely to now come from the biggest town nearby and therefore it's not likely the officer attending is going to be well versed in firearms law or probably anything rural crime related. I'm not saying this is right but it's reality as it is such a rare occurrence compared to domestic violence incidents, public order etc that officers just won't have the time or ability to know every law about everything. This is where the attitude of the shooter getting stopped is so important. We know this stuff as its a passion of ours so we need to speak to them with an open mind and educate them not pick them up on their lack of knowledge and try to have one over on them. I know most of us will act in a manner that will help our sport but sadly there are some (as previous threads have highlighted) who will just argue and leave the officer going away thinking all fieldsports enthusiasts are total bell ends and next time they'll seize guns 'just to be on the safe side' or pick you up for having a light out on you car etc. Again I'm not saying that's right but it's human nature.
 
I am sorry but the police should know the law. No good making excuses that they don't deal with it often so it's ok not to know.
 
Have you ever read Firearms law and all the relevant acts? have you any idea how much law there is for every conceivable transgression that could occur in the UK? I assume as a shooter you have read and remembered every single piece of firearms legislation and can apply it to any situation that you may be in? Now try and do that for every single piece of law ever written, never going to happen unless part of the criteria for becoming a copper is to have a world record holding memory. You're living in a fantasy land.
 
I was a cop in the past and we had to learn it. That's what being a professional is all about.
 
I was under the impression ignorance of the law was not a legitimate defence. Does this only apply to the public and not the police?

Considering the possible outcomes that could result relating to firearms I think it is completely irresponsible to allow police officers to deal with situations without being thoroughly conversant in the relevant laws.

Wolfie
 
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