Sensible allowances advise needed

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

I use a .270 and 22-250 and want to start reloading for both. I currently have 60 to hold and 40 to buy on both calibres & would like some advice on what would be reasonable quantities to request? Bullets come in boxes of 100, right? And I can buy primers and powder on the grounds of my FAC alone? Is that right? :-|

So, would it be sensible to ask for 250 to hold and 200 to buy in both calibres? I'd like to have a play around & find the best load for both rifles (soft-point in both 130 and 150gr for the .270, and soft-point and ballistic tip for the 22-250) hence the 200 to buy. If I didn't intend reloading, the quantities I already have would suit me fine (apart from the 300 to hold/250 to buy in .22LR that I also have)

I only shoot limited numbers of rounds (probably less than 20/month), so wouldn't be buying rounds often once I'd sorted out my loads

Any advice would be appreciated
 
They have done away with the difference in hold/buy allowances now, so you just ask for what am mount you'd like in total.

i have allowance of 300assembled rounds and 300 expending missiles (total 600 bullets) in 2 calibres
 
I didn't realise they'd changed the allowances! I'd only be reloading expanding bullets as I don't do any target shooting.........I take it the soft-points and ballistic tips are both classed as expanding bullets though?

So, probably 600 in total would be best for my needs. 100 assembled rounds and 200 expanding bullets for each calibre (a box each of 130 and 150gr for the .270, and a box each of soft-point and ballistic tips for the 22-250). That would allow me to have 100 of each calibre ready to use, and bullets ready for reloading. maybe I'm overcomplicating this, but every time I think about it I get a headache, lol! 600 should save me a few trips to the shop though. I should probably have a chat with my FEO & see how that ties in with other re-loaders in my area, too
 
Depending on where you shop that could limit the amount of primers you can buy. Personally I'd say 500 of each to buy and 600 of each to hold. This will mean you can get primers in batches of 1000 with no worries.
 
I currently have 200 to buy and 400 to hold on each of my centrefires, which will just change to 400 to hold when I renew next year. I'd ask for 250 built + 150 components in each calibre if I were reloading. That gives you 400 components that can be moved into the built column up to max 250 - does that make as much sense as it did in my head?!
 
No. Lol!

I'd been told primers weren't limited by quantities. Is that not right? I just assumed that my FAC would allow me to buy primers and powder as I needed them, and that it was only bullets that were restricted.

I see what you mean about the primers though. Makes sense to buy them in larger batches for consistency
 
sorry, I thought at first you wanted sensible advise, and I thought, well,, won't come from here ! LOL...300 makes sense because you can buy say 100 in one weight and 100 in another if you run two loads, and still have some left at home, that's how I do it and works just fine.
 
I've had 300 from the outset for my 7mm-08 and my 7x57R. Now I reload so I buy expanding bullets but I've never been anywhere near the 300 limit for either. However as I can now reload cheap practice ammunition with FMJs, I daresay I may come somewhere near that level at some point. But I don't blast my way through 100 rounds on a range session, maybe 20 to 40 each time. If you're just stalking and not doing much target practice, you really don't need many.
 
Thanks guys. Good to know I wasn't too far off the mark (unlike when I actually squeeze the trigger :oops: )

I like to fire a few rounds to check zero every month just to make certain I'm not too rusty when I get out stalking, but I can't imagine myself getting near those limits. It would just be good to be able to have the ability to buy the components in the quantities I need to find the load that the rifles like best. I have a friend in the States who last year loaded me a batch of .270 that gave superb results at around 2700fps & I'd like to see if I can get close to that. Recoil was tamed dramatically, and the groups were pretty good out to a decent range too :D
 
wow
some shocking misconceptions here

generally the changes in the allowance system reflect sect 5 expanding missiles/bullets AND/OR fully loaded ammunition.
they are not interchangeable.
they are counted together

there is no limit for non expanding missiles/bullets
you can have 10,000 if you wanted
BUT make them into fully loaded ammo and they will be counted as part of your allowance.

Primers and "shooter's powders" are lumped together in your allowance by weight as an individual without an explosives certificate
I forget the exact totals but am pretty sure that it is 15kg combined weight of class 3 powders (NitroCellulose reloading powders NOT black Powders) AND primers (constituent explosive component alone rather than gross weight)
Black powder is Type 1 and requires different storage requirments

So for the purposes of simplicity we are talking single digit grams of primer explosive in a box of 1000 primers.
so long as you don't go over the 15kg (or whatever it is now) you will be fine.


As for allowance apply once for a sensible number
you don't have to actually have that number or anywhere close

I have 600 or 1200 across the board for any centrefire/rimfire respectively (1200 for .30cal as I have two different cartridges in this calibre)

don't apply for numbers that end in 50
most boxes come in 100's

do apply for more than 500 as some boxes come in 500's at considerable saving

don't listen to the argument that they won't listen to economies of scale as an justification for increased allowance
they will and have done
lets face it most people reload as much for the cost per shot saving as they do for accuracy potential

edit:
here - https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=90


10. What explosives may be stored without registering premises?
One or more of the following:
a. 10kg black powder;
and
b. No more than 5kgs of one of the following options - i. shooters’ powder (black or nitro - powders)ii. any explosive or combination of explosives listed in Schedule 1 of COER 1991. (See Annex A)iii.

OR

a combination of shooters powder and any one ormore of the explosives listed in schedule 1 of COER1991. (See Annex A) and also
c. 15kg net explosive content of one or other of the following,
or a combination of them –i. small arms ammunitionii. primers for use in small arms ammunition or percussion caps or;
 
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Thanks Bewsher.....at the time of my application my FEO did ask if I intended to reload, and that the allowances could be easily upped in the future. I figured that was far enough in the future that my allowances weren't relevant at the time. Wish I'd put a bit more thought into it, especially as I've almost filled the FAC ammo allowance table in just over a year :doh:

I've emailed him to ask his advice, so hopefully I'll be able to put the variation in this week. I take it the ticket needs to go back with it at the same time? Best I make sure I have enough rounds handy to see me through if it takes longer than expected
 
I have no experience of the standard practice used in most areas, but several large forces including my own use a system where ammunition & expanding missiles are not 'counted together' but are listed separately under (Section 2 - Ammunition including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles

It's much easier to set appropriate limits for reloaders with this method. The recent introduction of the simplified FAC Form 202 doing away with 'Purchase Quantity' in favour of a single 'Maximum Quantity to be Possessed' has added flexibility too.

My FLD follows the Home Office Guidance to the letter I'm told. It gives an Ammunition allocation of 160 rounds for the 'Deer' calibres, and 250 rounds for the 'Fox' calibres (any .22 Centrefire). The 'Expanding Missiles' allocation is a standard 300 for all calibres.

If you need to keep playing with several bullet weights then it's easy to do this by loading these up into trial batches to stick to the overall totals for bullets & complete rounds.
 
Dont forget that you have different allowance for expanding and non expanding ammunition
I don't, and nor does anyone else I know. However, I don't know anyone in Essex. :)

I'd ask for 600rnds for each, on the grounds that you might want to work up a different deer and a fox round for each. They might be happier giving you 150-200rnds and 500 S5 bullets for each. This is a split (S5 bullets and rounds) I have seen previously, and might tick their box by keeping the actual round-count held down.

Non-S5-bullets don't count, of course - and some of them are fine for fox/vermin loads.
 
but several large forces including my own use a system where ammunition & expanding missiles are not 'counted together' but are listed separately under (Section 2 - Ammunition including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles

I am confused as this appears to be exactly as stated above (despite the fact that actually "ammunition" whether expanding or not is counted as part of an allowance. i.e. you can buy 5000 FMJ bullets in the post, you may not buy 5000 milsurp .308 rounds without the allowance)

"Ammunition (allowance)" includes any expanding ammunition and any expanding missiles (is this not "Counted together"?)

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=99

Certificate holders beware!
Expanding missiles count as part of your maximum holding allowance regardless that no primer, propellant or cartridges are attached thereto.
It is important to ensure that loaded ammunition and expanding missiles are counted correctly so as not to place yourself in legal jeopardy.
Assuming, for example, a certificate holder had a maximum allowance of 300 of a certain calibre; the following four examples would put that holder at his maximum holding;

i. 200 rounds of ammunition and 100 expanding missiles
ii. 100 rounds of ammunition and 200 expanding missiles
iii. 300 expanding missiles
iv. 300 rounds of ammunition

(I have removed the word "factory" from these examples as it bears no relevance as to who made the rounds.
Home loaded rounds are still part of your allowance!


as for this:
My FLD follows the Home Office Guidance to the letter I'm told.
It gives an Ammunition allocation of 160 rounds for the 'Deer' calibres, and 250 rounds for the 'Fox' calibres (any .22 Centrefire).
The 'Expanding Missiles' allocation is a standard 300 for all calibres.

I think your FLD needs to review his understanding of the HO Guidance because I can't see any aspect that indicates his interpretation!
from your example you can have 250 Vmax .223 rounds and then no ability to buy a box of 100 Gameking for your deer rifle?!

complicating something that is very simple

Expanding bullets + Whole rounds/Ammo = Allowance
 
I am confused as this appears to be exactly as stated above (despite the fact that actually "ammunition" whether expanding or not is counted as part of an allowance. i.e. you can buy 5000 FMJ bullets in the post, you may not buy 5000 milsurp .308 rounds without the allowance)

"Ammunition (allowance)" includes any expanding ammunition and any expanding missiles (is this not "Counted together"?)

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=99

Certificate holders beware!
Expanding missiles count as part of your maximum holding allowance regardless that no primer, propellant or cartridges are attached thereto.
It is important to ensure that loaded ammunition and expanding missiles are counted correctly so as not to place yourself in legal jeopardy.
Assuming, for example, a certificate holder had a maximum allowance of 300 of a certain calibre; the following four examples would put that holder at his maximum holding;

i. 200 rounds of ammunition and 100 expanding missiles
ii. 100 rounds of ammunition and 200 expanding missiles
iii. 300 expanding missiles
iv. 300 rounds of ammunition

(I have removed the word "factory" from these examples as it bears no relevance as to who made the rounds.
Home loaded rounds are still part of your allowance!


as for this:


I think your FLD needs to review his understanding of the HO Guidance because I can't see any aspect that indicates his interpretation!
from your example you can have 250 Vmax .223 rounds and then no ability to buy a box of 100 Gameking for your deer rifle?!

complicating something that is very simple

Expanding bullets + Whole rounds/Ammo = Allowance

On the contrary this simplifies something that is inherently complicated, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for BASC to explain the complexities of it with arithmetic. BASC are dealing with the traditional practice used by other forces .... where there is only a single allocation of 300 of 'Ammunition including expanding ammunition and expanding missiles'.

In my County we are allocated a separate quantity of ammunition (expanding or non-expanding in any proportion), and (N) expanding missiles for each calibre. What could be simpler?

I can't see the situation portrayed in your last paragraph arising when allocations of ammo and exp. bullets are always paired.:p
 
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So if I had an overall allowance of 600, say, and 175 assembled rounds, that would leave me with a balance of 425 expanding bullets in boxes, to stay within the law?

And if I decided I wanted to assemble all the bullets into complete rounds I would be unable to buy more bullets until I'd used at least 100 rounds, or buy factory rounds until I'd used at least 20? Seems simple enough :thumb:
 
You need to give yourself opportunity to buy a 200 box of factory ammo if you need to.
I have no idea why you have to differentiate but I have 600 in each c/f calibre allowance and if I had to state a split I would say 400 assembled and 200 bullets
 
Yep you got it woodsmoke. It really is simple. Just treat ALL Bullets (missiles) and rounds (complete ammunition) as the same. It don't matter if there made up or not they all count if they are of the expanding type.
 
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