How would you handle it?

VSS

Well-Known Member
Driving down a small country lane earlier today, and became aware that there was a driven shoot taking place in the woodland alongside. I passed the keeper and a couple of pickers-up, who stood aside to let me pass, and could hear the beaters working through the wood and shots.
Rounded a bend and found one of the guns in the middle of the lane, waiting to get a shot at birds as they passed over. He - somewhat reluctantly - moved to the side of the road as I approached, and stood with his gun held horizontally across his arm. POINTING STRAIGHT ACROSS THE ROAD, LEVEL WITH MY HEAD!!!! He appeared totally mystified as to why I refused to drive past! Just gave repeated impatient (and rather pompous) gestures for me to get a move on!

Now, bearing in mind that this is the same shoot that owns sporting rights over part of my farm, and that my kids go beating there on the weekends, and the shoot owner has been a reference for my son's university applications, how should I have handled this?

(Also bearing in mind that this is the same shoot owner who sent pickers-up and flag waving flankers onto parts of my farm where he DOESN'T have sporting rights, when shooting adjacent woodland, and without asking permission, and then got annoyed when I quizzed him about it).
 
I think I'd probably recommend a friendly chat (with the shoot owner) about the concerns you have regarding the safety of some of the guns on the shoot. Obviously you have leverage regarding their use of your land for beating and picking up but for now I'd probably not mention that until you need to.
 
I agree tedster, although as the op said owner I took this to mean that the shooting rights were owned not leased. If leased the op obviously has a lot more leverage with the shoot
 
Sounds like an internal debate in your mind. You now what you would like to do but you are also considering consequences. I think the shoot owner needs to be told where he stands. If the boot was on the other foot I am sure he would be talking to you.
 
I wouldn't be renewing their lease!

I wish!
The fact is I only own the sporting rights on half of my farm. The shoot owner that I'm talking about owns the rest, so no option of "not renewing their lease" I'm afraid.

My question really though, is how would you have handled it at the time, i.e., when you wanted to drive past.
 
Sounds like an internal debate in your mind. You now what you would like to do but you are also considering consequences. I think the shoot owner needs to be told where he stands. If the boot was on the other foot I am sure he would be talking to you.

Take a foto of said gun and show the shoot captain your concerns??
 
You left it too late. You should have got your phone out and told the shooter, unless he held the gun in a safe manner while you passed and apologised for risking your life, you would ring the police and tell them (quite rightly) a member of the shoot was risking harm to you with a shotgun by pointing it at you
 
You left it too late. You should have got your phone out and told the shooter, unless he held the gun in a safe manner while you passed and apologised for risking your life, you would ring the police and tell them (quite rightly) a member of the shoot was risking harm to you with a shotgun by pointing it at you

unslipped in a public place also???
 
You left it too late. You should have got your phone out and told the shooter, unless he held the gun in a safe manner while you passed and apologised for risking your life, you would ring the police and tell them (quite rightly) a member of the shoot was risking harm to you with a shotgun by pointing it at you

Yes, I think that's what I should have done. It did cross my mind but I didn't have a phone with me - I was only driving about locally checking my animals and stuff, so left the 'phone at home :doh:
 
unslipped in a public place also???


Unslipped and loaded and in use! There's thick woods both sides of the road, so by standing on the road to shoot it gives a nice clear piece of sky to shoot into! But that, in itself, is not an offense. However, the fact that I was interupted / alarmed etc makes it into an offense I believe.
 
Yep, you've got that right VSS!

50 feet from the centre of a highway/public footpath IF it causes alarm/distress or interruption, which in this case it clearly did!
 
Unslipped and loaded and in use! There's thick woods both sides of the road, so by standing on the road to shoot it gives a nice clear piece of sky to shoot into! But that, in itself, is not an offense. However, the fact that I was interupted / alarmed etc makes it into an offense I believe.

Oh yes and you cannot have an gun unslipped in a public place..
 
Yep, you've got that right VSS!

50 feet from the centre of a highway/public footpath IF it causes alarm/distress or interruption, which in this case it clearly did!

Almost. It's illegal to discharge a gun within 50ft of the center of a highway .....

If he wasn't discharging at the time, no offence. Though, had it had a malfunction things may have been a very different issue.


Can anybody provide a link to the specific law relating to an unslipped gun in public ? And I'm not meaning the HO guidelines, it's not there
 
It's illegal to discharge a gun within 50ft of the center of a highway .....

No it's not!

But that's not the issue here anyway. The issue is, how I should have dealt with the individual who was causing me alarm? Obviously confrontation isn't ideal when one party has a gun! But the fact is, due to his actions, I didn't feel safe proceeding along a public highway.
 
My view of your description is, that as you rounded that bend and came to the gun, is it not unreasonable to assume that he was acting on his own and no one knew he was positioned in the road.I would ask the keeper where the peg location is,and or was that gun told to stand where he was?
I would think they will be horrified when you tell them and realise the difficulty they could have found themselves in if it had been a police patrol or an anti who was travelling along as you were.
 
It would not be tolerated on a clay shoot, rifle range or well run pheasant shoot. Tell the shoot organiser , I am sure he would be keen to run a safe shoot. Never point a gun at anything your not prepared to kill!
 
No it's not!

But that's not the issue here anyway. The issue is, how I should have dealt with the individual who was causing me alarm? Obviously confrontation isn't ideal when one party has a gun! But the fact is, due to his actions, I didn't feel safe proceeding along a public highway.

Yes, it is.

The "....." Was because I couldn't be bothered to add the rest of the "if in doing so" etc etc.


taken from basc.


SHOOTING NEAR HIGHWAYS (E.G. ROADS & CARRIAGEWAYS)
In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2) of the Highways Act 1980 as amended].

It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited in itself. It must also be proved that there was an injury, or that someone’s passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they have been forced to make a detour.
For the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), a ‘highway’ is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the fifty feet rule described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g. footpaths.
Whilst the Firearms Act does not provide a statutory definition of what is meant by “lawful authority” or “reasonable excuse”. We believe that “lawful authority” would not necessarily apply to sportsmen as this seems to relate to those issued with firearms in connection with official duties such as police or military personnel. “Reasonable excuse” would apply to sportsmen shooting over land with permission. Section 19 of the Firearms Act with regard to having a ‘firearm in a public place’ also applies and is described on page 4. This legislation applies to all public places and not just open access land.

So, I think you will find, that it IS an offence to DISCHARGE within 50ft, blah blah blah
 
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