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Thread: Do i have any rights?

  1. #1

    Do i have any rights?

    Six months ago I bought a rifle from a member on this forum, he delivered the rifle (after a period of pretty poor communication) to a well respected RFD many miles from me and my plan was to leave the rifle there until I sorted my guns out (living the topsy turvy self employed lifestyle that i do)

    I paid the asking price even though the seller said he was negotiable (he wasn't) he also didn't tell me the rifle was 'shot out' and in the RFD's words basically scrap.
    Predictably the seller is not responding to messages.
    Unfortunately I'm not in a position to write off 450,

    So do I have any rights?


  2. #2
    To an extent your protected by the distance selling regulations, the duration of collection may not help but neither of you put rounds through it whil at the RFD anyway. Get to Citizens advice- its free just mind your topsy turvy lifestyle dont delay that to. Best of luck.
    If it ain't broke don't fiddle with it!
    Not even a little..........................(unless you can fix it, properly fix it, working and PROPPER working!!)

  3. #3
    Did they make any claims as to the condition when you purchased it ?

  4. #4

    I don't know, but it does sound that you have gone about things in an odd and haphazard way. I too bought a rifle from a Forum member. I arranged to have it inspected on delivery by my RFD and that I would then pay the balance for the rifle. My RFD inspected the rifle and said it was in excellent condition and exactly as described. Within two hours I paid Steve the balance for his rifle.

    The passage of time and your disorganised approach to things is against you. I would suggest you put this down to experience.



  5. #5
    Is the action worth 450.00, if so get it barreled, & then take the once bitten twice shy approach.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  6. #6
    SD Regular
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    East Midlands M1/M69 Junction 21
    I would first of all say that one man's "shot out" is not necessarily "worn out". Some people have an odd idea of what is "shot out". Have you actually, of the RFD (who may have an interest in selling you one of his stock) put the rifle to a target?

    I had once a Colt 1911 .45ACP pistol where the barrel looked liked the inside of a gutter down pipe. It would in most people's opinion be "shot out" and well "shot out". In fact in would shoot, off hand (one handed) all day long sub-two inch groups to point of aim at twenty yards. One ragged cluster of one big hole. I bought it with the intention of putting in a replacement barrel but, as with all guns, tried it first on a target. Needless it then all became well evident why previous owners had never replaced the barrel. It was more accurate than any replacement barrel was ever reasonably likely to be.

    As long as there are no headspace issues the rifle provided it is accurate may well be in legal speak fit for its purpose. However if the seller said that it was "pristine" or "lightly used" then that is different as condition claims are statement of fact that may have been substantial to the contract. Although omission of a fact that is fundamental can be actionable to so you may have a slight chance that he didn't say it was "shot out" if that can be held by a court to be an important omission from the facts.

    I'll explain. The classic legal case is the sale of the petrol garage on the busy A-Road. The buyer purchases it for the seller's asking price (but unaware as the seller has not told him) that the local authority has just decided to construct a bypass and that within the year the passing traffic will all move from the busy A-Road onto the bypass and the road it stands on will be downgraded to a B-Road.

    So omission of letting the buyer know that a thing is "shot out" can be as bad as a false statement that the thing is "little used". It depends on the court's opinion.

    You have a couple of solutions and this assumes that you have NOT taken possession of the rifle and used it at any time. Elsewise of course the seller could claim that you have done the shooting out. They may also be issues of a time limit to taking legal action.

    But here are two solutions:

    Sue in damages that is for the difference in value of the rifle to what you paid for it. It will have some residual value that is sure. That may be a matter of opinion and depending on the make. Thus a "shot out" sporterised Parker Hale .303 SMLE won't have much, if any, value for the rest of it whereas a a "shot out" modular rifle like a interchangeable barrel Sauer or etc., may do so for the valuable rest of it being the stock and action and bolt.

    Sue in contract. That is for performance of the contract. Thus you contracted with X to deliver to you a rifle of whatever make or marque in whatever condition he described. And that as the one originally sent isn't then you are asking the court to order him to take that one back and supply you with a rifle that is of that marque and in the condition he described.

    Good luck. But as I began it is a matter of perception and unless there was a statement as to condition of the rifle, that you relied on to form the basis of the contract, it will come down to how accurate it is at, say one hundred yards. That may vary from three inches for a stalking rifle, to half an inch for a bench rest rifle.

    Good Luck! You need to check back copies of your PMs relating to the sale. Whilst a verbal statement is quite legally binding (people make verbal contracts every day) it is very difficult to prove. Bottom line is that unless a statement of condition, verbal or written, was made then it all comes down to how it performs on a target.
    Last edited by enfieldspares; 15-12-2014 at 13:44.

  7. #7
    How about a second oppinion im in no way saying whoever checked it is wrong but I have heard of people thinking a barrel is worn out when really it's got such a build up of copper it looks as tho there's very little rifling

    Would whoever have checked it be offering to rebarel it aswell

    on the other hand what I've heard could be tosh

  8. #8
    I rather think that the fault for buying this shot-out rifle is yours. I don't know, but is it a private sale? Might struggle for any comeback if it is, assuming no goodwill from the seller.

    I know it's shutting the door after the horse has bolted, but if I was spending 450 on anything second hand, before any money is exchanged, I'd want to see that it was worth that to me, which would involve actually seeing it. Just because someone is on the same forum as you and shares an interest doesn't mean they are any more trustworthy than other folk. I have bought a rifle advertised on here and everything went well and from all accounts, most transactions go fine. But I wouldn't gamble 450 on someone else's word that I don't know.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by finnbear270 View Post
    Is the action worth 450.00, if so get it barreled, & then take the once bitten twice shy approach.
    I agree, constructive advice, there are a few talented gunsmiths on here that will sort it for you.

  10. #10
    Six months in storage and only now you are checking it's what you paid for, didn't the RFD look at it when it arrived, mine did, gave me his opinion. I once bought a rifle that in the words of the RFd " it's old and worn, but will drop deer all day and see you out.

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