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Thread: NO DSC2 = NO Open ticket (Dorset Fire arms policy)

  1. #1

    NO DSC2 = NO Open ticket (Dorset Fire arms policy)

    IS mentioned in my other thread on cleared land


    But thought it was worth pointing out separately

    HAd my FAC interview Friday

    Should be good to go with 22rf 17rf and 6.5 CF

    Ticket is closed as std

    But Dorset have a policy now (I assume as they have had the mentor condition removed from the toy box)

    will remain closed till at least 1st renewal i.e. 5yrs (was similar guideline policy when it was 3yr renewals)

    However the ONLY way they will consider making open before is

    Hold DSC1 AND DSC2

    any other forces coming back with this

    Hopefully this will be a little more flexible after ive had my FAC a while and they get to know me for the fluffy cuddly Guy I am and BASC has explained in a big picture book

    I also hope I can get the Rimfires opened sooner as DSC should have nothing to do with them

  2. #2
    Peter Watson, when BASC held their seminar in Carlisle back in 1989/90 introducing DSC1 & 2 was quizzed by me how long it would take both landowners and police constabularies to use the qualification as a method of vetting applicants. His reply then was 'oh that'll never happen'.
    I didn't think much of his reply then and was certain it wouldn't take many years before the DSC cert. would be utilised in vetting processes.
    ATB
    Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse .25-06Rem. Zeiss 8x56, 110gn Nosler Accubond = Game Over!

  3. #3
    Not sure how helpful this will be, but here is a link for the actual guidance they should be adhering to. Once I saw it was 255 pages I chickened out of looking for your answer- sorry!!

    https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...-_Oct_2014.pdf

    I have had my FAC for 31 years and it was open from the start - those were the days - but I bet there is nothing in the guidance about specifically having DSC1&2 to get your ticket opened up, or waiting at least 5 years.

    Here is a link to BASC's latest take on the 'open ticket' issue;

    https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&...sc+open+ticket

    I see this issue come up again and again and clearly some forces have some interesting views.

    Sorry if links don't work automatically, you might need to paste them into your browser (it's too early in the morning to get the kids to help me do it properly!!).

    Best of luck,

    hh

  4. #4
    Essex open after 5 years, some people manage to get it opened before that. As far as I know no mention of DSC1 or 2.

  5. #5
    I have had a proffesional discussion with Dorset Police regarding training. They were very keen on mentoring but the Andy Marsh ACPO FEWEG changes driven forward by BASC put them in a position that they were unhappy with. I am guessing that their interpretation is that DSC 2 will mean that you are safe to shoot anywhere without supervision. As we all know this is not the case, DSC 2 is a good qualification to have but in is based upon Deer knowledge and not the knowledge and experience that makes you competent to shoot with an open certificate.

    To be fair to them, they are having to do a lot with not much money so I can understand their view as they are unwilling to take the risk of giving out an open certificate without some form of training evidence.

    What does concern me is that at the moment they are the only supplier of FEO training in the UK and that this approach could spread to other departments who are all cash strapped and now suffering from the additional dilemma of FEOs being investigated by the IPCC in Surrey due to decisions made to give shotguns back to a person who went on to use them in a double murder.

    My view on the quality of this way of dealing with their problem is clouded by the fact that I do provide training for shooting over land so I would suggest that you speak to BASC about this. There are many ways to evidence the competency required.
    Good Luck!
    Last edited by Jagdmatch; 21-12-2014 at 08:43.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagdmatch View Post
    To be fair to them, they are having to do a lot with not much money so I can understand their view as they are unwilling to take the risk of giving out an open certificate without some form of training evidence.
    The worrying thing is that they are issuing FACs to people they presumably do not consider entirely safe, and applying territorial restrictions to them in the hope that this will make up for the holder's deficiency in understanding of safe field use of rifles.

    This would be less worrying if it were indeed impossible to take an unsafe shot on 'cleared' land.

  7. #7
    So basically it's safe to open a ticket for someone who in theory could've shot just 3 deer yep sounds about right the way things are going .....
    There are no perfect men in this world ..... Only perfect intentions

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagdmatch View Post
    They were very keen on mentoring but the Andy Marsh ACPO FEWEG changes driven forward by BASC put them in a position that they were unhappy with.


    What does concern me is that at the moment they are the only supplier of FEO training in the UK and that this approach could spread to other departments

    If this is the case then CC Andy Marsh and the ACPO FEWEG need to take a controlling interest in the Training of country wide FEOs not let one county program them to their fav interpretation


    They really where unhappy about the Mentor thing and deem that its Completely unusable now so not even going back to using as it was first intended as an occasional use tool not a broad brush one size fits all
    I would be quite happy with a "and on any other land accompanied by a Open FAC holder " Which is legal any way if I can use an estate rifle and did not have a FAC at all just not my own lol

    so if they are on that and the AOLQ (which Dorset didn't like to give out before either) Following HO guidelines due to the ACPO FEWEG Mandates

    then they should also follow the HO guidance on opening tickets and asses on a case by case basis certainly not impose an expensive set of not required courses as the only acceptable option

    especially as they are or should ONLY be concerned with safety and suitability

    (which I was told I am very satisfactory due to past non Hunting shooting and training )

    to prove that point IMO
    They are going to clear my 3/4 acre Garden for Fox so i can protect my live stock (was told by several FAC holders yes it safe but doubt they will clear it )
    and my Deer perm is only 22 acres with footpaths (some have said on here they cant get 200 acres cleared as deemed to small)

  9. #9
    What would you suggest then? On face value you have only ever used shotguns and air rifles. Now you have moved on to potentially much more dangerous stuff. Sure you think that you're safe and you may well be BUT I'm sorry if this offends you but if I took you out stalking you would not be leaving my side for a very long time as you don't have the experience of using rifles safely. We all have to learn somewhere as no one is born with experience. What would the police look like if they gave you an open certificate straight off the bat and you killed someone whilst taking an unsafe shot? You would find yourself in prison too. Take it that they're protecting you from yourself and use your time wisely. Remember, 0nce that bullet has gone down the barrel there is no taking it back!
    Personally I feel that the mentor condition was a good thing. The fact that the police were made to stop using it has just encouraged them to move the goal posts to something that is much more difficult to achieve. Good luck with your new venture.

    Baguio

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by FGYT View Post
    IS mentioned in my other thread on cleared land


    But thought it was worth pointing out separately

    HAd my FAC interview Friday


    Should be good to go with 22rf 17rf and 6.5 CF

    Ticket is closed as std

    But Dorset have a policy now (I assume as they have had the mentor condition removed from the toy box)

    will remain closed till at least 1st renewal i.e. 5yrs (was similar guideline policy when it was 3yr renewals)

    However the ONLY way they will consider making open before is

    Hold DSC1 AND DSC2

    any other forces coming back with this

    Hopefully this will be a little more flexible after ive had my FAC a while and they get to know me for the fluffy cuddly Guy I am and BASC has explained in a big picture book

    I also hope I can get the Rimfires opened sooner as DSC should have nothing to do with them
    Hi lancashire opened mine after two years with level one complete and level two started plus a letter from my mentor .
    DJC
    Keep on going to the end you never no what's round the corner

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