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Thread: Casting bullets can you use them for Deer??

  1. #1

    Casting bullets can you use them for Deer??

    Hi
    I'm interested in casting bullets and hand loading , whats the legal situation with using a cast bullet for deer?? obviously a certain weight is required but are there any other parameters required as with regular ammunition.

  2. #2
    I'd be interested to know the answer to this question, too.

    Obviously you'll need meet minimum calibre/velocity/energy requirements (delete as applicable).

    However, your missile also needs to be "designed to expand" on impact. We all know cast bullets kill deer and other quarry but from the legal standpoint, do you have to cast hollow points (or convert them to hollow points after)? Or, if you use a more deformable alloy of lead (eg. "softer") for your cast hunting bullets than your cast target bullets, arguably you have "designed" that bullet to expand.

    Perhaps some test shots into clay to demonstrate expansion would provide proof in the unlikely event it was required?

  3. #3
    IF you load lead to deer legal velocity I would not like to be the one getting the lead fouling out of your lands don't do it you cannot drive lead fast enough minimum legal velocity for deer 2450 f/p/s in the UK
    Last edited by african jack; 01-02-2015 at 21:19.

  4. #4
    velocity is only require north of the wall, a heavy slow slug would be ok south of the border as long as it generates 1700ft lbs, could work in my .45-70

    atb Matt

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by african jack View Post
    IF you load lead to deer legal velocity I would not like to be the one getting the lead fouling out of your lands don't do it you cannot drive lead fast enough
    Not true.
    Leading is not due to velocity. That is a myth that has persisted for many decades -so don't feel bad for repeating it.

    When there are no other contributing factors, leading is caused by pressure. When the pressure exceeds the yield strength of the alloy being used, you get leading. Lead bullets compress somewhat under pressure and then return to their original shape as the pressure lessens. When the pressure has exceeded the strength of the alloy the bullet no longer returns to it's original shape. When the collapse is severe you get leading. As you work up cast loads you will first see this manifested in a sharp falling off in accuracy and the reduction or disappearance of the "lube star" formed by the remaining lube on the muzzle. (as it jets out between the lands of rifling) Ideally, you get no irreversible compression and the lube just makes a faint star on the muzzle. This is when you have gotten the most from your load.

    I have three decades of experimentation and application shooting high velocity cast bullets. My 206 grain 8x57 load develops a chronographed 2400 fps. I shoot a 168 grain 309" 30-06 load at 2500+ fps. I shot the same bullet from my 308. JAYB of this site has watched me load and shoot a 56 grain .225" bullet from my .222 at 2750 fps into MOA groups, and unsuspecting prairiedogs. ~Muir

    (That was more then you counted on, wasn't it??)
    Last edited by Muir; 01-02-2015 at 21:43.

  6. #6
    If velocity is not an issue for the .45-70, I would think a 300-gr lead bullet at 1800 fps, from something like H-4198, would be the trick. That is a very accurate load with a jacketed SP 300-gr, and little recoil.

  7. #7
    SD Regular Greener Jim's Avatar
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    100% legal so long as it expands. No different to selecting the correct jacketed bullet eg not using a varmint bullet for deer or using a bullet designed for much larger game.

    If it's deer legal energy wise you're good t go. I load 405gr flat point at just over 1500fps giving over 2000 ft-lbs.
    I'll be using them on deer when I just see one!

    Quote Originally Posted by xavierdoc View Post
    However, your missile also needs to be "designed to expand" on impact. We all know cast bullets kill deer and other quarry but from the legal standpoint, do you have to cast hollow points (or convert them to hollow points after)? Or, if you use a more deformable alloy of lead (eg. "softer") for your cast hunting bullets than your cast target bullets, arguably you have "designed" that bullet to expand.

    Perhaps some test shots into clay to demonstrate expansion would provide proof in the unlikely event it was required?
    Which is exactly what I did. I bought the bullets from Shellhouse Bullet Company. Donald cast be 50 at 10 bhn and 50 at 15 bhn.
    The 15 bhn bullets turned out perfect. Penetrate like a hot knife through warm butter and expanded to .75" on average (depending on media)
    Did this to a hill:
    Attachment 52384
    I don't have small hands. I think it'll perform on deer just fine

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern View Post
    If velocity is not an issue for the .45-70, I would think a 300-gr lead bullet at 1800 fps, from something like H-4198, would be the trick. That is a very accurate load with a jacketed SP 300-gr, and little recoil.
    I have a Ulberti 45-60 that I have for deer, the above is what I'm trying to achieve with a 295 or a 350 gn cast lead bullet. I've read that gas checks will stop severe leading once you start pushing the velocity. Don't want to hijack the thread but I'm keen to reach the 1700ft/Ids of energy. Love my 45-60 and found lots of imo on Cas City by those who use the 45-60 in the States. deerwarden

  9. #9
    SD Regular Greener Jim's Avatar
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    That makes a nice change from the usual 45-70's.
    Which load data are you going to use? It seems 45-60 may be tricky to get over 1700 ft-lbs.

  10. #10
    as long as you get the legally reqd energy I think you should be fine , lead will by nature deform on impact and lets not forget that if you use a 45 cal of some description the bullet is starting out bigger than the ever popular 243 finishes !

    I'm fairly certain that a 45 calibre permanent wound channel will be fairly effective !
    Right where's those stones , I'll start !

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