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Thread: firearms application.

  1. #1

    firearms application.

    Hi guys, I have a friend that has just put in for his first firearms application. He has already owned a shotgun for years which is used for hunting geese,duck,pigeon etc. He currently goes on paid stalks several times a year and has been doing this for several years. As a member of a wildfowling club he also has access to land which is certified for .22 Rimfire. He also has access to land with fox shooting. He is just about to join a local rifle range.

    He has asked for

    A 22 Rimfire rifle (vermin control). Plus mod.

    A 243 rifle (deer stalking & AOLQ) Plus mod. wanted for Fox and smaller Deer

    A 308 rifle (deer stalking & AOLQ) Plus mod. Wanted for larger Deer and wild boar.

    Target shooting on approved ranges for the above.

    FEO has said no to the 243 for stalking, apparently saying that only a 308 is needed despite being advised that potential and future land might not be approved for a 308 and that a 308 is a bit overkill for foxes. BUT... The FEO would "allow" him a 243 for target shooting only!

    To me - there seems to be no logic in allowing him a 243 for target shooting but denying it for stalking and foxing.

    I have advised him to challenge the restriction on the 243 (he also has Basc membership by the way) but he seems willing to drop the 243 altogether.

    It seems to me that he has already provided GOOD REASON for having a 243 For its intended use, which under Firearms law is supposedly all that is required.

    I would welcome your views on the above.

    Note - regarding my past dealings with the same FEO

    I needed a change of condition of use for my own rifles, from target shooting to deerstalking, for rifles I already had authorisation to purchase on my firearms certificate. (I had previous experience of deer and boar hunting)

    I was told in a phone conversation by the same FEO that I needed a mentor and it could take up to 18months to get the condition approved. I knew this to be utter rubbish and contacted the BASC, after their intervention via a phone call to the right person, I had the condition on my certificate changed to what I required. It was processed and in my hands about two weeks later.
    Last edited by paultap; 11-02-2015 at 04:37.

  2. #2
    Does he have DSC1 or 2? Experience?

    Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 (England & Wales) makes it an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway with vehicular rights without lawful authority or excuse, if as a result a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache View Post
    Does he have DSC1 or 2? Experience?
    He has the experience of going on paid stalks several times a year for about the last 4 years, he currently does not have a DSC 1 or 2,

    As the FEO is willing to approve the 308 for Deer stalking and any other lawful quarry, then this would allow him to go foxing with the 308, but only target shooting with the 243.... Doesn't seem logical to me.
    Last edited by paultap; 10-02-2015 at 03:23.

  4. #4
    Fight it, no logic at all.

  5. #5
    He should go to Basc, seems to have provided good reason for all the calibres requested.

  6. #6
    As a first application I would simply ask for the .22 and .308 and moderators for both. Why worry about the .243w the .308w is the more versatile round.

    1. He will have problems finding non expanding ammo for .243w for target shooting.
    2. He can use lighter bullets in the .308w for foxing and heavier bullets for stalking and boar.
    3. Ex -military or target ammo for .308 is readily available.
    4. If you are worried that the ground that he will be using the rifle over is only cleared for .243w just ask them to clear it for .308w pointing out that the whole land clearance thing is silly anyway as no calibre is safer than another.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  7. #7
    The view of the firearms enquiry officer appears perverse, in the lights of the information provided by the OP and should be challenged. The BASC team are doing this regularly for members.

    However the acquisition of a firearm for target shooting is not normally authorised unless and until the applicant is a full member (not probationary) of a Home Office Approved Club. So agreeing to recommend the .243 for target shooting when the applicant is not a full member is rather curious too.

    Remember that the firearms enquiry officer is not the final decision maker. The feo makes a report with recommendations, so a letter to the manager would also seem appropriate in resolving these strange anomalies.
    A pessimist is an optimist with experience.

  8. #8
    I can never understand this sort of thing as IF you can be trusted to shoot with full bore rifle
    Why does land need to be approved.(if you are consider safe to shoot a full bore rifle then you should be the one to judge safety)
    A round out of a 243 is no more dangerous than a 308
    Provided you can give good reason for use of both after all 243 was originally developed as a soft shooting vermin round.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by paultap View Post
    FEO has said no to the 243, apparently saying a 308 only is needed despite being advised that potential and future land might not be approved for a 308 and a 308 is a bit overkill for foxes. BUT... The FEO would "allow" him a 243 for target shooting only!

    How one justifies the 'need' for each firearm and the exact wording/phrasing used is important though. A careful look at this aspect when writing the application is worthwhile. ATB
    Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse .25-06Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56, 110gn Nosler Accubond = Game Over!

  10. #10
    Hi Paul,

    as you can see I live in the Gwent police area and have a .243 for Deer & AOLQ but used mainly on fox with a 58g v max a .308 for Deer AOLQ & have a .300 Mag on cert for Deer & AOLQ but have not decided what to purchase yet but if your mate lives under South Wales constabulary they may be a bit different if I was him I would just go for the .22 and .308 for now as other posters have said use a lighter grain like 123g for foxes

    best of luck

    Paul D

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