Lack of youngsters

"Youngsters about". What sired them? Last I looked, deer didn't practice monogamy. You seriously don't think your issue is due to one infertile buck?

As for records & monitoring? Deer such as Persian fallow are a CITIES 1 animal & have their own "red book". I think we have a wee bit of idea about fecundity & recruitment in deer, (not just Messo's but they are a good example). Now that more Persian's are being released back into their indigenous range we are also getting some interesting insights into dispersal & dispersal rates for this species.

Can you name another wild animal which has had more research papers published on them than deer?

Sharkey
To be honest Sharkey, I haven't got a clue what you're going on about, "CITIES 1", "red book"? Not sure that what you're talking about is going to make much sense in 3 or 4 lines. It's clearly a books worth of data that requires reading.
I agree however after reading this thread (and thinking about it in daylight) that it isn't purely or even possibly any fault of the buck (although I would still take him out after 4 years, as I said at the start). I would also take out the does without followers (as I said at the start too!)
Baguio
 
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To be honest Sharkey, I haven't got a clue what you're going on about, "CITIES 1", "red book"? Not sure that what you're talking about is going to make much sense in 3 or 4 lines. It's clearly a books worth of data that requires reading.
I agree however after reading this thread (and thinking about it in daylight) that it isn't purely or even possibly any fault of the buck (although I would still take him out after 4 years, as I said at the start). I would also take out the does without followers (as I said at the start too!)
Baguio

In only two lines.

The convention on international trade in endangered species. A listing of 1 is the highest. The "red book" are the stud/data books recording each individual animal in captivity, in an endangered species, it's overseen by the World Conservation Union (IUCN).

Yes, deer fecundity in regards to "out", "up", "down" & "inbreeding" is fairly well understood.

Sharkey
 
"Youngsters about". What sired them? Last I looked, deer didn't practice monogamy. You seriously don't think your issue is due to one infertile buck?

As for records & monitoring? Deer such as Persian fallow are a CITIES 1 animal & have their own "red book". I think we have a wee bit of idea about fecundity & recruitment in deer, (not just Messo's but they are a good example). Now that more Persian's are being released back into their indigenous range we are also getting some interesting insights into dispersal & dispersal rates for this species.

Can you name another wild animal which has had more research papers published on them than deer?

Sharkey

Sharkey you are right in that deer do not practise monogamy, and in fact, Roe Does are undoubtedly the 'filthy sluts' of all our deer species here in the UK.:lol:
However, a good 'stand buck' could quite feasibly hold his ladies together and ward off young potential suiters, especially if the geography of the land helps. Roe does are also far more likely to wander in search of a Buck if they are not getting it at home. (reminds me of the old joke where women are likened to shed roofs! If you don't nail them properly - they'll end up next door!).
He may well be a good old buck that covers them well (but ineffectively) and guards them well. The fact that there are other youngsters in the area futher supports the fact that it is good deer ground or there wouldn't be any deer there in the first instance. Given these circumstances I can think of no other reason why a group of healthy does with the same buck should not recruit.
My advice would be to take out the old buck as early as you can in April (NOT wait until he is in hard antler and makes a better trophy!). You should then see another, or possibly even several younger bucks move in on the territory. Damage to your trees such as fraying will increase and you may have to cull one or two younger bucks. This will give you time to select the best Buck for the job and him time to become established before the rut in the summer. Only time will tell I'm afraid. Good luck,
MS
 
My home town is in Norfolk! :doh:

LOL!!!
I can only imagine what would happen if the Norwich and Stowmarket Gene pools collided!
Offspring with very pointy heads and numerous fingers and toes - all of them webbed!
I'd imagine they'd be hellish good swimmers though?!
MS:D
 
If your only shooting a 30 acre block I would have no worries about removing him something better will be waiting in the wings, any barren does should be gone already you'll be surprised how quickly you will have new stock if you know surrounding areas aren't shot.
 
In only two lines.

The convention on international trade in endangered species. A listing of 1 is the highest. The "red book" are the stud/data books recording each individual animal in captivity, in an endangered species, it's overseen by the World Conservation Union (IUCN).

Yes, deer fecundity in regards to "out", "up", "down" & "inbreeding" is fairly well understood.

Sharkey

And there was me thinking that I was the stupid one for not knowing :rolleyes:. Maybe next time you put up one of your well known abbreviations you could also put up the full version?
Perhaps you could also provide some information too? Quoting who wrote it or that there is information out there is about as much use as an ash tray on a motor bike!
Baguio
 
LOL!!!
I can only imagine what would happen if the Norwich and Stowmarket Gene pools collided!
Offspring with very pointy heads and numerous fingers and toes - all of them webbed!
I'd imagine they'd be hellish good swimmers though?!
MS:D
See post 12 :)
 
And there was me thinking that I was the stupid one for not knowing :rolleyes:. Maybe next time you put up one of your well known abbreviations you could also put up the full version?
Perhaps you could also provide some information too? Quoting who wrote it or that there is information out there is about as much use as an ash tray on a motor bike!
Baguio

Really? Wow! I'd expect more from someone living without electricity in a developing country. Not someone with internet access & electricity in the UK. Next you will claim you've never herd of the United Nations. No one wrote The UN or the IUCN they are organisations. The convention on international trade in endangered species os overseen by the UN. It's pretty basic general knowledge.

Sharkey
 
Really? Wow! I'd expect more from someone living without electricity in a developing country. Not someone with internet access & electricity in the UK. Next you will claim you've never herd of the United Nations. No one wrote The UN or the IUCN they are organisations. The convention on international trade in endangered species os overseen by the UN. It's pretty basic general knowledge.

Sharkey
Please don't patronize me Sharkey. There's nothing basic general knowledge about it. I have never heard of it and I suspect that 90% of the people on this site haven't either. They certainly wouldn't have know what it was just from the abbreviations.
What is basic is that when you use long abbreviations in text you always use the full version first otherwise you're going to make no sense to the readers.
I would have thought that someone with vastly superior intellect like yourself would have known that? :rolleyes:
Baguio
 
As I have said its very basic general knowledge. A quick search on this forum shows there are no fewer than 51 pages of topic titles for threads which discuss the "convention on international trade in endangered species". I haven't even tried to look for the United Nations or the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. I doubt that 90% of folks on here would be ignorant of these acronyms. You're just special.

Sharkey
 
As I have said its very basic general knowledge. A quick search on this forum shows there are no fewer than 51 pages of topic titles for threads which discuss the "convention on international trade in endangered species". I haven't even tried to look for the United Nations or the International Union for the Conservation of Nature. I doubt that 90% of folks on here would be ignorant of these acronyms. You're just special.

Sharkey
Special eh? You really are a delightful individual if not one who is full of knowledge? I have done the same search and got 3 hits. One being this one and the previous one being in 2013. I have no idea how you got 51 pages but a basic searched proved that it is Not common knowledge at all?
I have learnt nothing from you on this thread Sharkey apart from the fact that you think you're way better than the rest of us but offer nothing. I used to work with someone like that. Sadly when the S**t hit the fan he was left wanting in so many areas. IE He could talk the talk but couldn't walk the walk. Anyway, my time is better spent learning from people with something useful to contribute so I'm out!
Baguio
 
Special eh? You really are a delightful individual if not one who is full of knowledge? I have done the same search and got 3 hits. One being this one and the previous one being in 2013. I have no idea how you got 51 pages but a basic searched proved that it is Not common knowledge at all?
I have learnt nothing from you on this thread Sharkey apart from the fact that you think you're way better than the rest of us but offer nothing. I used to work with someone like that. Sadly when the S**t hit the fan he was left wanting in so many areas. IE He could talk the talk but couldn't walk the walk. Anyway, my time is better spent learning from people with something useful to contribute so I'm out!
Baguio

OK . I understand you are special. Just type CITES into the search function. Then it will show 51 pages of threads which discuss trade in wildlife. You might have to read through several post to find the relevant content, but it should be highlighted in yellow to make it easier. It's not that hard just try it & don't be afraid to ask for help.

Sharkey
 
Back to the original thread...

Take any does without followers and remove the buck. You will be surprised at actually how quickly other bucks will move in and try and take over. You will have a new gene pool and the deer will be better off. Well... Not the dead ones obviously.
 
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