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Thread: Prevention of crime and self defence

  1. #1

    Prevention of crime and self defence

    An item on the ITV News this evening gave me some pause for thought. The cuts to the police service including stations closed and less officers nationwide (but particularly noticeable in rural force areas) are making it look increasingly likely that they will for all practical purposes not be able to do anything to prevent crime, but just be able to attempt to investigate crime that is reported to them. All reactive and no proactive.

    Now there's some justification for saying that they don't even investigate crimes reported to them in many cases now. But, ignoring that, if this comes to pass and the police do not do anything to prevent crimes, then the onus falls onto the individual to prevent crime from happening to himself/herself and his property.

    Some may well have already twigged where this is going. The reason that we cannot have firearms for self defence in this country is that the responsibility for ensuring public safety and crime prevention is the Governments, through the Home Office and through them, the police. If they aren't doing this.....

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
    The reason that we cannot have firearms for self defence in this country is that the responsibility for ensuring public safety and crime prevention is the Governments, through the Home Office and through them, the police. If they aren't doing this.....
    According to Colin Greenwood in 'Firearms Control', the reason is actually that some time since the 1920 Act was passed, the Chief Officers of Police decided (perhaps with the support of the Home Office) that self-defence was no longer a 'good reason to possess'. This was affirmed by a reply from the Home Secretary in 1946 who made it clear to the House that the HO didn't think personal protection was a good reason to possess.
    No case-law, no statutory or judicial backing.
    Just civil servants on one sort or another making stuff up.

  3. #3
    I cant see the law ever being changed to allow possession for self defense in this country. There are powers even in the US feverishly chipping away at this very topic in many states. I think the majority of the UK population would have a fit if it was even suggested.

  4. #4
    Who on a hunting forum would want a firearm for self defence?

  5. #5
    Ah, don't get me wrong. I certainly don't want to possess firearms for self defence. The purpose of the thread was to point out where we seem to be going with regard to the police preventing crime, the main reason why we don't need guns to protect ourselves. It was in the nature of me being apprehensive if things go this way.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
    Ah, don't get me wrong. I certainly don't want to possess firearms for self defence. The purpose of the thread was to point out where we seem to be going with regard to the police preventing crime, the main reason why we don't need guns to protect ourselves. It was in the nature of me being apprehensive if things go this way.
    At a guess, private security patrols funded by us individuals to cover the inevitable police shortfalls run by the current MP's (and Tom Windsor) who are chipping away at the police and have a financial interest in the likes of G4S etc

  7. #7
    Guess you're right, nun_hunter. Along with even more cameras. Need some shares in CCTV companies I think.

  8. #8
    Think this scenario is being played out in Australia now, think most private firearms were removed, leaving people in remote places completely defenseless

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by 762Scot View Post
    I cant see the law ever being changed to allow possession for self defense in this country.
    The point I was trying to make in post 2 is that the statute law has not been changed from the 1920 Firearms Act's position of allowing possession for self-defence.

    What has changed is Home Office's opinion of what we should be allowed - not a court's decision, or Parliament's.

  10. #10
    Do you have any legal recourse, such as a lawsuit against the police? Could someone that has been robbed, beaten, etc... make a case against the police for failing to protect?

    of course out laws are different (and do allow arms for self-defense) but the legal route has been tried. In our case, the suit was unsuccessful. The courts found that the police had a responsibility to protect the general citizenry, but did not have a responsibility to protect any individual citizen.

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