I Kinda Like Drillings

gitano

Well-Known Member
So when I lost one recently - it was a gift from my Dad, I went on the last hunt my Dad and I got to go on together; using that arm on that "last hunt" my Dad and I took game with it - I decided to replace it quickly.

On September 11, my fishing buddy and I decided to do a 3-day-2-night float trip on the Susitna River. I took the Collath drilling along to shoot ducks and a moose if we saw a legal one. The short story is that we capsized and I lost A LOT of 'stuff'. All of the stuff I lost was replaceable except for two items - Yes... one was the Collath. The other was a knife an "internet friend" made for me using some caribou antler I have him.

I lost some camping stuff that I'd had for a long time, some of it 35 years. Still, that stuff was replaceable. The Collath and the knife are not. However...

I just closed the deal on this item:
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Here's the description.
This ad features the pictured G. F. Stormer Antique Drilling with 16 Gauge Shotgun Barrels and a 10 Millimeter Rifle Barrel. This gun appears to be in all original condition with Outstanding engraving on the receiver and lock plates. The gun is tight but I advise against shooting it as the 26 and 3/4 inch Damascus barrels are pitted on the inside. The buttstock has 3 pins in the right side, these are small and most likely can be removed. I have no idea of why they are there. This a small dent in the right barrel about 6 inches back from the muzzle. The length of pull measures 13 inches. This is very nice older gun that borders on the edge of pure artwork. A close look at the pictures will show you all the details.

Have a look at it. I like it. It's listed as a "10 mm". We'll see what it really is when I get it in my hands. That should be late this week. I'll cast the chamber, and based on what I find, I'll probably have to get on some sort of "solution" to find a cartridge I can use.

Paul
 
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I've always been fond of drillings and double rifles etc myself, but legally justifying one over here can be tricky. Interesting find though, looks nice too. Hope you enjoy it.

ATB
Oly
 
You are not the only one who likes drillings Paul. My dad had one that came back home with him at the end of ww2. He could not get a license for the rifle barrel, or so I was told, and the barrel had been plugged at both ends. I used to use it as a boy with just the two 16 bore barrels. I emigrated to Australia when I was 17 and took it with me. One day when I was in Sydney I looked in a gunshop and was talking about it and discovered they had an Austrian gunsmith who was keen on drillings. Took it in with me next time and he said to leave it and he would see what he could do. Well he unplugged it, checked it all out and recommended that it was not good enough to go back to its original 9mm (I think). He suggested a .22 Hornet. He reamed out the old barrel, turned down a Hornet barrel to fit and installed it. I don't remember now how much he charged but it was very cheap for what he had done. It also shot spot on with the leaf sight with no alteration needed. I kept it for several years when I came back to the UK but in the end the police got so stupid about it that I sold it. It would be nice to have another but I do not have a need.
 
Thanks fellas. I can't wait to get it in my hands. Should be later this week. (I doubt I'll be able to take better pictures of it though.)

Flytie - thanks for the references. I may use them. However, when I spoke with the store-owner about the "pitted" and "don't shoot", the answer I got was "We always say that about Damascus barrels." There are few people in the US that know very much about fine Damascus barrels. MANY "experts" shout at the top of their lungs that Damascus barrels are "dangerous". Horse-feathers! There are plenty of fine English shotguns with Damascus barrels the are even proofed for "modern" shotgun ammo, let alone black powder. The Collath I owned I loaded with BP, and shot it regularly for grouse and occasionally for clay pigeons. It was quite sound. I'll check this one out thoroughly when I get it. If it needs it, I may very well be talking with Mr. Teague.

You guys and the laws you have to deal with break my heart, and in a country with such an extra-ordinarily rich history in non-military arms.

I'm looking forward to finding out what the rifle is chambered in.

Paul
 
Paul, speaking from personal experience I can add a word of caution about Damascus barrels. I have seen quality damascus unravel like a toilet paper tube when shot with a low brass load of #8 shot. Might never happen again but I have seen it. Be careful, Amigo.~Muir
 
Well I suppose anything is possible, but I've been shooting Damascus barrels for a while, been around a lot more, and have yet to even see one 'leak'. There are even NRA-sanctioned skeet and trap shoots around the country that are for Damascus barreled shotguns only, or have a division exclusively for them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not questioning you or the story, and you can rest assured that I will be sure that I am comfortable with shooting it. I should probably point out that I will NOT be using "modern" smokeless loads. Only BP for me and these old beauties.

Paul
 
Good. There is supposedly something about the welding and the flux used: attracts moisture, degrades the weld, barrel disintegrates. It looks like a stout old gun, though. I hope it serves you well. Do you think that 10 mm designation might be the bore diameter, and not the groove?? I have seen at least one sporter, and a nice one, in the 11 mm Austrian Werndl cartridge. (tho that would make for very deep rifling)~Muir
 
Nice looking gun, personally I like the Germanic engraving.
It's not a 9.3mm by any chance?
 
Honestly, the only clue is the "10mm".

These arms from the turn-of-the-century were a long way from any semblance of "standard". Each gun-maker had his own idea about what was "right" and "best" and built his guns accordingly. Actually, I don't have any problem with that except that the cost of such a view of the world meant that the 'common man' was excluded from ownership, and indirectly from hunting, because he couldn't afford to 'play'. On the other end of the spectrum is the Remington Model 700 - a maker and model I have a particular affinity for as well - and the reason is that it does afford the 'common man' the chance to participate in hunting. It is the very symbol of "standard". "Simple" means that it can be manufactured simply and therefore inexpensively. Because I could afford a "Remington" in my early adulthood, I was able to 'participate' which in turn allowed me to develop an appreciation of those pieces made by Purdy and Holland & Holland and Sodia and all the other great gun-makers of the last two centuries.

10mm was a common caliber at the turn of the 20th century. I suspect this one is something like a 10 x 45 to something like a 10.75 x 75. You can believe that I am looking forward to 'the chase'.

Paul
 
Here are some images I took of the Collath:

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The action was both simple, and elegant.

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Wilhelm Collath definitely had his own view of the world. His shotguns were not commonly the standard 12, 16, and 20 bores. He liked the 14 especially. He did use the 'typical' rifling of the day - a type of Whitworth. Here is a slug of the muzzle and a drawing I made from it as I 'sussed out' the bore and chambering.
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The rifle's chambering was pure Collath, and not the more common 10.75 Collath. The actual chambering required a cartridge that used a 'heeled' bullet. (That's a bullet with a "heel" of smaller-than-bore diameter that fits into the case mouth.) The cartridge that eventually worked as a suitable substitute was the .44-40 Winchester. With my cast bullets and the open sights, it was a very useful (and fun) shoulder arm for birds to moose out to 150 yds or so.
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:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Paul
 
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Ermm wow massive! I enjoyed reading and looking through that. Id love one for wandering round rough shooting (Not in that calibre though :oops:) Something that would knock over a rabbit or a muntjac.
 
I'm not familiar what ranges you folks jump rabbits when "rough" shooting, but if it is in the vicinity of say 20 yds or so, the Collath would have been fine to use the shotgun loaded with #4s. And the .44-40 is a pretty mild round actually. Even on the diminutive muntjac, those bullets at the Collath's muzzle velocity - about 1500 f/s - should just "punch through". In the US we are wont to say the likes of "You can eat right up to the hole."

If you have a look at this thread: The Big Boar it describes my use of the Collath on a pig hunt. I would expect the same performance on a similarly-sized muntjac.

That said, I've never laid eyes on a muntjac in the flesh, let alone hunted them. There may be more to it than I understand.

My point with all of this is not to 'convince' anyone to find and start using a drilling, but rather to 'get the wheels turning' in some folks' heads that already want a drilling and are looking for "justification". The truth is, the 16 ga using black powder, and the rifle chambered in something like the .44-40 Winchester, is a very 'benign' firearm by today's standards. There's no future in trying to figure out the police's psyche, but it seems to me that describing (and demonstrating) that a desired firearm is "benign" by today's standards might get it on one's license.

All of that said, a 100-year-old drilling is not for those that want to walk to the local gun store and buy ammo 'over the counter'. (You sort of "marry" an old drilling when you get one, if you know what I mean.;)) I would expect and hope that with the rich history of fine non-military arms in Britain, it would't be difficult to find over-the-counter black powder 16 ga ammo. (Here it is produced commercially for the Cowboy Action Shooting sport.) However, the ammo for which the rifle is chambered will almost certainly be "obsolete". A very common chambering for turn-of-the-20th-century "continental" firearms was 9.3x72R, and it's not too difficult to find that brass. (I have a Franz Sodia Cape gun chambered in 16 ga by 9.3x72R.) If you get to say 'only' 75-years-old, all of the "x57" rimmed cartridges (7, 8, 9, and 9.3 mm) start appearing and in "nitro" form. Those will be easier to find, but, being less "benign" and more "modern", may be harder to "justify" on a license.

Paul
 
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wow iv e loved this thread, never really payed any attention to combination guns and drillings

i see guntrader has a .410/.22 for 220 quid!!!!!

that could be "fun" for rabbits:D

wonder what the feo would say? hehehehe


sauer /paul
 
wow iv e loved this thread, never really payed any attention to combination guns and drillings

i see guntrader has a .410/.22 for 220 quid!!!!!

that could be "fun" for rabbits:D

wonder what the feo would say? hehehehe


sauer /paul
Only one way to find out :D
 
only one way to find out


heheheheh yeah well FEO might be okay but i guess ive used up my "allocated" lot for the year...according to "she who must be obeyed"

i took delivery of a custom made rifle this year and thats my xmas & birthdays for next few years.

plus im sitting offshore doing absolutely nothing but surf the net and i keep buying "stuff"....who started that "bumbag thread" ? ......i decided oh but i "need" one of them....no wonder its called evilbay......it has me in its grasp......
guess i could tell her . "need" that combination gun too...but dont think it would work

heheheehe

sauer /paul
 
Both beautiful guns.
You must have been gutted after surviving the capsize to find you lost the gun.
Make sure you have this in a flotation suit of its own if going "offshore"

I want one.....................You can never have enough guns, although my local firearms licensing branch believes differently.

Regards
6.5
 
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