The advice to photocopy certificates before surrendering for renewal.

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Brithunter

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Should also say that the photocopies should be secured away from the home address as they are no good to you once the Police seize them. I made copies of both my FAC and SC and both have been taken.

Be aware of this.

In future I shall arrange secure storage of all copies and receipts elsewhere. Hassle sure but no so bad as having them taken.
 
BASC advice was to give police a photocopy and keep original certificate until it expires- by then you will have a new one ;)

If FLO wants to checks it that's fine but certificates are valid until they expire or are revoked.
 
Should also say that the photocopies should be secured away from the home address as they are no good to you once the Police seize them. I made copies of both my FAC and SC and both have been taken.

Be aware of this.

In future I shall arrange secure storage of all copies and receipts elsewhere. Hassle sure but no so bad as having them taken.
Sorry why would police take them and why would you have a worthless document ?
 
I have no idea why the Police took them but they did and they are worthless if you cannot refer to them. I now have no proof of the conditions on my certificate so it's going to make it more difficult for the solicitor is it not?
 
If you were stupid enough to put all your eggs in one basket who's fault is it your right it is yours .

I've heard of the exact same problem with a certificate holders son who was coming out of jail to lived at the property, he was told for him the keep his weapons, his son could NOT have ACCESS to the property, at all ,he surrendered his weapons to storage until his son move out, into his own accommodation, and the locks to the property were changed .

He got notice from the licensing department well in advance ,in your case it is not your son so he should not have access to your property at all .

The other thing you mention, they seized other property IE knifes it should only be weapons on your issued certificates, you have knifes in the kitchen did they seize them NO, you should have supervised the up lift of the items on the warrant , you give them access to your property ,warrant or not .

If when you give them free access you then try to interfere with the warrant you will end up arrested ,try getting your weapons back there after .
 
The police are obliged to provide you with a detailed inventory of anything they have seized, or you can sue them for theft, believe it or not. I actually thought they had an obligation to provide you with such on the spot prior to leaving with any seized goods. Also, not showing you ID, badges, etc. etc. is against the code, you have a clear legal route to get back big-time IMHO.

Or what?

If you were stupid enough to put all your eggs in one basket who's fault is it your right it is yours .

I hope you're kidding.

Paul
 
Or what?



I hope you're kidding.

Paul




No I'm not ,firstly I'd never have been in the situation ,someone has said something to some one IE his Nephew that he would be staying or going to that address, on the CPS checking the address due to his bail conditions they see the address is of a firearm certificate holder, which is a big NO, NO.

Paul this isn't the USA where you have a constitution,which allows you to bare arms it is the UK,it is a privilege as a firearms certificate holder you've got to be cleaner than the driven snow on the grant of a certificate if you live in a bad area you won't be granted a fac if your name or address appears on the police computer, it's not looking good which also goes for family,and the friends you keep .

I've known a few people to have there weapons removed which is usually done around 0200 hrs when your in your bed and disorientated .
I know of one guy that had his weapons removed because he was going through a divorce ,she was the one that left him with another woman ,there was never any argument she got everything because he gave her everything he had moved 500 miles back to were he grew up .

The police new all that and still seized the weapons ,because on the move he told both constabularies he was moving back home, they asked him why ,then asked his wife that where the problems started they were still friends but the police couldn't" see" the sense in it, it took lawyers and cash to sort the problem.

Paul[/QUOTE]
 
Constitution or not, I'm having a difficult time blaming BH for something he knew nothing about - "someone" saying "someone else" might be at his house, and what amounts to a raid without a warrant and no receipt for his property. To say nothing of the what may have been stolen.

Blaming BH for that seems a little "harsh" to say the least.

Paul
 
If you were stupid enough to put all your eggs in one basket who's fault is it your right it is yours .

I've heard of the exact same problem with a certificate holders son who was coming out of jail to lived at the property, he was told for him the keep his weapons, his son could NOT have ACCESS to the property, at all ,he surrendered his weapons to storage until his son move out, into his own accommodation, and the locks to the property were changed .

He got notice from the licensing department well in advance ,in your case it is not your son so he should not have access to your property at all .

The other thing you mention, they seized other property IE knifes it should only be weapons on your issued certificates, you have knifes in the kitchen did they seize them NO, you should have supervised the up lift of the items on the warrant , you give them access to your property ,warrant or not .

If when you give them free access you then try to interfere with the warrant you will end up arrested ,try getting your weapons back there after .

As per usual WS you spout off. The problem was that i regard having a thug in uniform pressing me back against a steel rail, the bit of paper he gave me i had to hold o me left as there was no room to hold in in front because of this armed thug in uniform. As soon as I moved my right arm for aythign the uniformed thug to my right grabbed it. now is that the polite way to address a member of the public on their own property?

I could and was not allowed to supervise the "lifting" as you call it neither was my mother. When she ried to do so she was threatened with arrest for obstruction.

The police as I said have seized a collectors bayonet, a re-curve bow in it's case and all the air weapons from here including my fathers 1932 Haenal Model 15 tin plate and my BSA Meteor .177 and my Feinwerbau 127 Sport .22. The did not take any knives that i am aware of although at the moment I cannot lay my hands on my Bear Hunter locking folder so I the morning I will look for it and see if it has been taken.

And what exactly do me mean eggs all in one basket?

Are you suggesting I store of hide my firearms at different locations? My firearms were stored in an approved manner and only passed the FEO inspection for the renewal last Thursday week. He recommended it be done with the few alterations of use as I am swapping some rifles around to shoot. Then this.

Oh they arrested me, they assaulted me which was the intention from the word go it seems hence their unacceptable manner and aggression. As for a detailed inventory and receipt...................... dream on Lincolnshire Police say they do not have to give receipts. The first thing Monday morning the solicitor will have to get onto them demanding the return of my paperwork like my file of firearms receipts and my certificates, exam and birth which they took along with the books, shooting magazines and arrange for an RFD to collect the guns for proper storage where they can be inspected for any damage.

Your living in a dream world and it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.............................. velcome to the State komrade. The Police state.
 
No I'm not ,firstly I'd never have been in the situation ,someone has said something to some one IE his Nephew that he would be staying or going to that address, on the CPS checking the address due to his bail conditions they see the address is of a firearm certificate holder, which is a big NO, NO.

Paul this isn't the USA where you have a constitution,which allows you to bare arms it is the UK,it is a privilege as a firearms certificate holder you've got to be cleaner than the driven snow on the grant of a certificate if you live in a bad area you won't be granted a fac if your name or address appears on the police computer, it's not looking good which also goes for family,and the friends you keep .

I've known a few people to have there weapons removed which is usually done around 0200 hrs when your in your bed and disorientated .
I know of one guy that had his weapons removed because he was going through a divorce ,she was the one that left him with another woman ,there was never any argument she got everything because he gave her everything he had moved 500 miles back to were he grew up .

The police new all that and still seized the weapons ,because on the move he told both constabularies he was moving back home, they asked him why ,then asked his wife that where the problems started they were still friends but the police couldn't" see" the sense in it, it took lawyers and cash to sort the problem.

Paul
[/QUOTE]

Once again I see you open your mouth and it spills out. Once you prove good character and no record then the proper use for the firearm it's your right to have it not a privilege. That's the word the armed officer used but is an ignorant twit as well. I mean he didn't even know that a wooden stock is not licenable and there was he spoutign off how intelligent he was.
 
widows son
iam frankly horrified by your attitude
the guys was assaulted and property stolen under duress ,i believe this is called aggrevated bugalry ? just because they where uniforms doent give them carte blanche .
without following procedure there criminals
 
widows son
iam frankly horrified by your attitude

I'm horrified by Brithunter's attitude.

Originally posted by Brithunter:
If rumours are to be believed then the FEO's round here are nothign by sidelined ex inspectors who lost their position through alcohol problems....... make you think don't it. drunks with all your security details???:eek: Now if I can only prove the rumour true then the muck will hit the fan.
The guy's a professional whinge-er.
Don't try and tell me the police dont read these forums. - Those are pretty bold claims - the chap has crapped in his own nest.
 
I'm horrified by Brithunter's attitude.

The guy's a professional whinge-er.
Don't try and tell me the police dont read these forums. - Those are pretty bold claims - the chap has crapped in his own nest.

I sincerley hope that they don't come for you one day. The claims are not bold but the truth. This morning I realised that the Polcie have stolen every cartridge case they could find that was not one of the calibres listed on my certificates. Several packets of new S&B 7,62x54R and Lapua 7.5x55 cases are missing as are thousands of .38spl and .357 mag cases. Several thousand berdan primed, fired i might add, 7.62x54R are gone..Since when did one need a FAC to possess brass cases?

Your attitude would have been useful in the Warsaw Ghetto as it was just this way and thinking that enabled the Nazis to get away with the things they did there. They relied upon the fact that others would turn their head and not support those being persicuted.

I am disappointed but not surprised at the closed mind set amongst the British shooters we have seen it before when teh S.A rifles were taken and again with pistols the view of a lot was :-

It does not effect me!

Well one day it just might and then you can howl into the void as there will be none to support you.................. why should they as you never bothered to try to understand let alone support in any way others.

As for teh Police reading these forums most probably and Lincs Firearms Licensing manager Helen Wilkie knows I use the handle "Brithunter" so I am not hiding behind a mask. She also knows that I regard her as a empire builder making an empire built on made up rules and conditions to suit her own personal agenda.
 

Once again I see you open your mouth and it spills out. Once you prove good character and no record then the proper use for the firearm it's your right to have it not a privilege. That's the word the armed officer used but is an ignorant twit as well. I mean he didn't even know that a wooden stock is not licenable and there was he spoutign off how intelligent he was.[/QUOTE]
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Once again brithunter your going of half cocked, I have only given a honest opinion ,but like most that's not what you wish to here , stating that your local police are ignorant twit is not going to help your situation, clearing your mind and starting with a positive attitude will help you far more .

The weapons and ammunitions were removed along with "all component"parts" the police know that the property has been cleared in full.

You have not had your firearms certificate revoked or suspended, only the materials removed no doubt, pending a further investigation of the circumstances.

As for the mention of the thug, your extremely lucky the did not remove" you " from the property in hand cuffs during the search due to the affray you had with the officer ,
Resulting in your injuries ,had I had the injuries you describe I would have been taken to hospital right there and then, not 48 hours later ,these injuries further substantiate a affray with the police .

Which you will have to state why they came about, if you do end up in court ,they will look at you as a unsuitable person to hold a firearm due to this, tread very carefully there .

You can get lawyers 365 days of the year, that would have been my second call after the hospital, I've never looked at any Police Officer as a fool or a clown like some may thing ,they have a job to do ,which can be difficult and dangerous at times, going to a house with the reason to remove weapons for a unknown reason can be undaunting not knowing, if you just might be looking down the barrel of a weapon.

If it had been me, I would have given them unhindered access ,there's every chance you will get them back after the facts of the situation, have been collated by both parties .

So your statement of wake up and smell the coffee could just be the best thing you could do for yourself ,then sort out the mess in a manner suiting the situation .
 
If an offender is on Bail, the residence he claims to be staying at will have to be approved as suitable. If it is the residence of another person, the home owner for example, their permission for it to be used as a Bail address must be sought before the offender will be allowed out on Bail. It appears that this address is only visited occasionally according to BH.

The story on both threads suggests that out the blue for no other reason the actions described occurred? Only because his nephew sometimes pops up. I cannot help but think there is more to the story.

I also find the accusation made on the other thread that money has been stolen a strange one. Lets get things in perspective here. Is an officer really going to risk a good pay, an excellent pension and going to jail for £50!!!! Come on now.....

Like WS I can also recall posts by BH relating to slagging off the police firearms dept and getting fed up of the number of times he gets stopped driving his vehicle and how the police have nothing better to do and so on.... Well, if the manner of driving necessitates a stop...

There are police officers on this forum and this continual berating of them is at the very least pathetic and naive. They do have a job to do, and I also agree they are not experts in the field of firearms legislation. As suggested by WS, if under these circumstances a polite appeal to their senior officer at the scene had been made regarding some of the issues BH may have seen a different outcome. It is a loose - loose situation that can only be salvaged somewhat by picking the argument you have a chance of winning and accepting that at least for the time being, the property is going!!!
 
In all honesty I am forced to admit that the longer I read the posts on this forum the more I understand. You guys scare the hell out of me.

The following are indisputable facts:

1) BH is a long-standing member here at the Stalking Directory,
2) No one here knows the facts regarding the raid on BH's property better than he does. He is the ONLY one with first-hand observation,
3) "You" have NO fact-based reason to believe that his representation is incorrect.
Yet...

"You" are willing to conclude that if the police actually did something like that described, that he MUST be guilty of SOMETHING. Furthermore, the more he asserts his "innocence" the more you SPECULATE on the very nature of his "guilt" and FABRICATE "examples" of his "indiscretions". Never was the saying, "With friends like you, who needs enemies" more appropriate. Either you are scared shitless that this will happen to you if you don't "pile on", or you are truly the most evil of self-righteous.

Don't EVER, in my presence, stand and point your finger at the German populace for "standing by" or "helping" the nazis effect their police actions. You ARE them.

Since I became a member of The Stalking Directory I have met some truly fine people. Those people's behavior made me want to come to Great Britain to share a hunting experience with like-minded men. Not too long ago, I TOLD my wife - not asked her if she wanted to go, TOLD HER - that we were going to go to Great Britain so I could hunt with some fine people. This thread has COMPLETELY reversed that emotionally-driven desire. Hell will freeze first. I am old enough to know how to avoid the clutches of all but the most aggregous fascists, but there is NO protection, legal or personal that can protect one from the ravages of "righteous, well-behaved, "good" citizens".

May God help Great Britain.

Paul
 
And we hit
Godwin's law

From Wikipedia,

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope— someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.

I too have read His rants about the local police, and wondered if its all one sided.
 
In all honesty I am forced to admit that the longer I read the posts on this forum the more I understand. You guys scare the hell out of me.

The following are indisputable facts:

1) BH is a long-standing member here at the Stalking Directory,
2) No one here knows the facts regarding the raid on BH's property better than he does. He is the ONLY one with first-hand observation,
3) "You" have NO fact-based reason to believe that his representation is incorrect.
Yet...

"You" are willing to conclude that if the police actually did something like that described, that he MUST be guilty of SOMETHING. Furthermore, the more he asserts his "innocence" the more you SPECULATE on the very nature of his "guilt" and FABRICATE "examples" of his "indiscretions". Never was the saying, "With friends like you, who needs enemies" more appropriate. Either you are scared shitless that this will happen to you if you don't "pile on", or you are truly the most evil of self-righteous.

Don't EVER, in my presence, stand and point your finger at the German populace for "standing by" or "helping" the nazis effect their police actions. You ARE them.

Since I became a member of The Stalking Directory I have met some truly fine people. Those people's behavior made me want to come to Great Britain to share a hunting experience with like-minded men. Not too long ago, I TOLD my wife - not asked her if she wanted to go, TOLD HER - that we were going to go to Great Britain so I could hunt with some fine people. This thread has COMPLETELY reversed that emotionally-driven desire. Hell will freeze first. I am old enough to know how to avoid the clutches of all but the most aggregous fascists, but there is NO protection, legal or personal that can protect one from the ravages of "righteous, well-behaved, "good" citizens".

May God help Great Britain.

Paul

Paul Britain doesn't need gods help.it needs it's own people to stand up and say it's not happening .

If you are put off by the like of this happening maybe you should look a little closer to home, America isn't as squeaky clean in it's own lawful pastimes, holding people without trial moving the goal posts to suit there own needs and requirements, Great Britain this was the same country that pulled America out of the depression by the boat load of gold for part payment for there allied help during the 2nd world war ,so don't blame Britain or it's laws because of brithunters small problem as has been stated he has little time for the police, why WE don't know that is his thing .

Do you want everyone to be in a state of sorrow about this ,this is just one of many things that have happened,in the course of life as we all know it ,it could have been me or anyone on the site ,I most certainly wouldn't have carried on the way it has been put over so far , at this moment in time is all we know about his situation ,he and only he knows what actually happened.

If you conduct yourself lawfully in this country, you have nothing to worry about that's why we have laws, for people to live by which most do ,were not the country that has armed police who shoot first ask questions later .

We'll leave that to the other side of the pond .
 
If you are put off by the like of this happening maybe you should look a little closer to home, America isn't as squeaky clean in it's own lawful pastimes

First, you'll get no argument from me on that quarter.

Second, NONE of my comments were "us vs. them" or "we vs. you". NONE of them.

Just to be clear, I have been shouting out loud for a VERY long time that the US HAS BECOME a fascist country. Ruby Ridge, Waco and the Texan YZF Ranch raid, just to name some of the more notorious examples of American fascism. And the US got where it currently is by "good" people not only standing by while the fascists acted with impunity, those same "good" people aided and abetted the fascists in their efforts by making FOUNDLESS comments like "well the police wouldn't have come after them if they hadn't done something wrong" OR more significantly: "There's probably more to the story. The police ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOB."

There was no 'holier than thou' coming from THIS quarter.

What absolutely appalls me is the unbridled eagerness of people AT THIS SITE to jump on ANYONE regardless of the known facts, ANY TIME there is ANY "police action". The only conclusion a reasonable person could draw is that the 'collective' is so afraid of the police that they feel compelled to "pile on" regardless of the known facts, OR that they genuinely are so self-righteous that they actually BELIEVE they are 'above' any such thing happening to them. THAT is what is happening in the US that 'scares the hell out of me'. It is the profoundly ignorant concept that "if the police "got after you" then you MUST have done SOMETHING wrong". That belief by the populace is the foundation stone of fascism. It is alive, well and THRIVING at The Stalking Directory. Since The Stalking Directory purports to represent "Stalking and Stalkers" in Great Britain, it is simply a reasonable person that would conclude that that attitude pervades among Great Britain's stalkers. I will emphasize AGAIN, that is not "we vs. you". That frighteningly dangerous attitude is growing by leaps and bounds in the US. It nauseates me - literally.

Paul

Oh by the way... I was a SWORN Peace Officer for 12 years. I KNOW what the *******s are capable of.
 
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