I was stalking last night and stalked into a Roe doe with two kids one was a buck ,the other a doe . My question is could i have legally shot the buck kid ?
You can shoot it if, and I think the law reads, "If it has been, or is about to be deprived, of its mother". It is a grey area as to whether the buck kid would still be dependant, but you could well argue a defence that you were within the law as it stands.
As to where the ethical cut off point comes, that is up to you to decide. I think it would survive here, so I would leave it.
Simon
since it's not a dependant anymore no
This is a real 'can of worms' type of question!
It is now legal to shoot a dependant buck kid if you either have, or are about to orphan it.
That in itself sounds simple enough, but when is it no longer dependant?
Is it when it no longer relies on its mothers milk?
The simple fact that it is still with her would indicate that it is still dependant in some way would it not?
I think that kids are dependant on their mothers for some time once weaned as they aquire 'life skills' as they grow.
Where and what to eat, how to stay safe and warm etc.
Kids that lose their mother at an early age never seem to do very well even if they are weaned.
It is almost impossible to put a date on this as some kids grow faster than others and may even have been born a month or so apart anyway!
Common sense must therefore prevail, and each individual case taken on merit.
As a rough rule of thumb though, most kids seem to be at an independant age just after Christmas.
I try not to shoot the mother of any family group before Christmas.
A vague answer I know, but probably as good as you will get with such a 'grey area'!
MS
Correct in the fact that it stands a chance of survival as basic life rudiments are met, other skills may obtained through mistakes it makes but the basic ingredient of the provision of not relying on its mother for food (IE Milk ) has been met
But how can you quantify when that is exactly?
Weaning from milk to solids is a gradual process that takes time. Just because you see a kid nibbling at the odd leaf doesn't necessarily mean it is independant!
It might just be copying its mother for the very first time whilst developing yet another life skill. Fallow in particular will draw milk for long after they actually need to. It's just not that simple in reality!
MS
if 10 day time elapses from evidence of does in the area not producing milk then its a safe presumption they will survive.
I think it also depends on what you are trying to achieve Stu. I've found that animals orphaned that young will rarely develop into healthy fully grown adults.
If you are desperate to reduce numbers, then you might have no option, but if you want to promote a healthy population for the future, they are better either culled or left at the mothers heel at such an early age.
The law may well allow it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it is 'best practice'!
That's my humble opinion anyway.
MS
If I was faced with the situation where I had a mature doe, with buck and doe kids, I would probably take the young doe. If you shot the mature doe the chances for a 2nd shot may not present itself, so net result - two young deer orfaned.
If I was presented with a mature doe and doe kid, then I would probably go for a one,two and take both animals. In that case I would shoot the mature doe first, ideally with a neck shot to drop her on the spot, then a swift 2nd shot on the youngster.
I have always been taught to leave doe's with young bucks at heel. I never think orfaned bucks turn out to be good animals in the long run.