too mutch poweder

toad

Well-Known Member
please can someone help this may seem a stupid question to some of you but i just can not figure this one out . i have loaded 40 308 rounds 150gn hornady sst 44gn varget . something i always do after loading some rounds is shake the round next to my ear to hear the powder.very basic but tells me that there is room for expansion. this time 10 ish out pof the 40 seemed very full not a good sighn ime thinking. so did the ear test on all of them . it seems all of the rounds that are dubious are of the same brass. so check max cl 2.015 ok check col 2735 with sst ok have not trimed case . so scales come in to question varies checks and they seem ok feeling very fuking puzeled. not been reloading for very long so am a bit nervouse. asked a friend to to pull a round and check powder wait just in case result ok. question should ther allways be room left inside the case ie should you always be able to hear the powder when you shake the cartridge. this might be obvious to some but it is really worreing me
 
If in doubt pull them and start again. I too tend to do the shaking test. You could have overcharged or not charged at all. Both equally as bad but for different reasons. I was always taught to take a small torch and peer into the batch of filled cases before I start to seat the bullets. I did once find one without a charge! Double charges generally impossible in rifle cartridges with sensible powders unlike pistol cartridges with small charges of fast powder
 
Have you weighed the assembled 308 rounds to see if there are any that are obviously much heavier, check your scales are ok, might be safer to pull the bullets and start again making sure your scales are ok, 44gns of varget is the starting load is it not for 150gn bullets so should be plenty of room in the loaded cases, better to be safe than sorry.
Sure some wiser loaders will have a better answer.
 
yes ido check every round with a torch before seating a bullet. yes i have weighed the bullets. my mate has text to tell me that the round he pulled was 43 gn on his beam scales so thats ok. ita a worry
 
yes ido check every round with a torch before seating a bullet. yes i have weighed the bullets. my mate has text to tell me that the round he pulled was 43 gn on his beam scales so thats ok. ita a worry
My 308 loads with 44gr varget don't 'shake' either, you need quite a 'gap' to hear the powder move.
Regards
Pete
 
please can someone help this may seem a stupid question to some of you but i just can not figure this one out . i have loaded 40 308 rounds 150gn hornady sst 44gn varget . something i always do after loading some rounds is shake the round next to my ear to hear the powder.very basic but tells me that there is room for expansion. this time 10 ish out pof the 40 seemed very full not a good sighn ime thinking. so did the ear test on all of them . it seems all of the rounds that are dubious are of the same brass. so check max cl 2.015 ok check col 2735 with sst ok have not trimed case . so scales come in to question varies checks and they seem ok feeling very fuking puzeled. not been reloading for very long so am a bit nervouse. asked a friend to to pull a round and check powder wait just in case result ok. question should ther allways be room left inside the case ie should you always be able to hear the powder when you shake the cartridge. this might be obvious to some but it is really worreing me
To approx check you scale, try weighing a 150 grain bullet head, normally the bullet weight is more or less spot on, at least it will give you an idea how far your scales are out.


atb blue.
 
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.. . it seems all of the rounds that are dubious are of the same brass.

I personally wouldn't mix brands of brass or vintages of brass. I would develop a load per brand of brass and also keep the brass segregated in terms of number of firings and number of annealings. I once watched someone shoot with three different brands of brass and they struggled to place the shots in a 4 inch circle at 100yds. I suspect your dubious rounds have brass that is slightly heavier. Finally, I don't batch fill the cases with powder, I fill one case and then seat a bullet. Regards JCS
 
What do you mean that "all of the rounds that are dubious are of the same brass"?? The others aren't?~Muir

To approx check you scale, try weighing a 150 grain bullet head, normally the bullet weight is more or less spot on, at least it will give you an idea how far your scales are out.


atb blue.

I personally wouldn't mix brands of brass or vintages of brass. I would develop a load per brand of brass and also keep the brass segregated in terms of number of firings and number of annealings. I once watched someone shoot with three different brands of brass and they struggled to place the shots in a 4 inch circle at 100yds. I suspect your dubious rounds have brass that is slightly heavier. Finally, I don't batch fill the cases with powder, I fill one case and then seat a bullet. Regards JCS
the scales are not out ckecked them against a beam scale and some digital kitchen scales . yes the only dubious rounds are all the same brand.
it must be this brass big lesson learnt will be getting some fresh brass. cheers lads
 
dont mix your brass, different make cases can have a massive difference capicaty ive found, keep everything a uniform as possible
 
I personally wouldn't mix brands of brass or vintages of brass. I would develop a load per brand of brass and also keep the brass segregated in terms of number of firings and number of annealings. I once watched someone shoot with three different brands of brass and they struggled to place the shots in a 4 inch circle at 100yds. I suspect your dubious rounds have brass that is slightly heavier. Finally, I don't batch fill the cases with powder, I fill one case and then seat a bullet. Regards JCS

Toad ,this is very good advise that JCS has given and is something that you would be wise to follow , i no from experiance. Regards arron.
 
have you ever had any problems
Nope. But like JCS, I charge and seat, charge and seat etc, all weighed on a known and double checked digital scale. I keep my brass in batches and use the same brand.
In the .243, where I have several different loads, from fast 58's to red legal 105's through subsonic and reduced loads, I do use different makes of brass, but they all get worked up to that load, in that brass, the reasoning for this is that a 95gr bullet with 20gr of powder behind it won't work the brass the same as a hot load, and I use three different bullet weights with vmax, so I use Norma for some, sako for others, and Winchester for others so I don't load the rifle with 58's when I want 87's or subsonic, but the brass is still all batched, shot counted, and annealed/trimmed where necessary
i know 'one load' would be a better option for most people, but I use it for foxing at distance, around world class dressage horses etc, so it's a requirement for me to either run different chamberings/calibers, or one gun and different loadings.

Regards
Pete
 
Hi, Ive recently started reloading and use 46.2 grains of Varget with 150 grn Interlocks .308 and get half inch groups at 100yds. I noticed you say the col of your ammo is 2735, Lee's Reloading Second Edition states the minimun col with Varget is 2800. My col is 2805 and it works for me, hope this helps.
 
dont mix your brass, different make cases can have a massive difference capicaty ive found, keep everything a uniform as possible


this is your answer, if all the cases that you can't hear the powder move in odds are the brass is just thicker so the case capacity is less. I used to get it in .223 norma cases would take 27 grains before compressing and Lapua 26
 
please can someone help this may seem a stupid question to some of you but i just can not figure this one out . i have loaded 40 308 rounds 150gn hornady sst 44gn varget . something i always do after loading some rounds is shake the round next to my ear to hear the powder.very basic but tells me that there is room for expansion. this time 10 ish out pof the 40 seemed very full not a good sighn ime thinking. so did the ear test on all of them . it seems all of the rounds that are dubious are of the same brass. so check max cl 2.015 ok check col 2735 with sst ok have not trimed case . so scales come in to question varies checks and they seem ok feeling very fuking puzeled. not been reloading for very long so am a bit nervouse. asked a friend to to pull a round and check powder wait just in case result ok. question should ther allways be room left inside the case ie should you always be able to hear the powder when you shake the cartridge. this might be obvious to some but it is really worreing me

I really don't know where to start on this.

The 'ear shake test' has to be the most pointless check because it's too late in the assembly process. You don't need a 'volume gap' for expansion anyway. There's an adequate combustion gap between grains even in lightly compressed charges. Your OAL seems very short with a pointy SST so it doesn't sound like you've gauged this?

Just start with the same batch of primed brass of a known weight. Use a reliable beam scale (it's reassuring, but not vital to do a periodic check on a digital scale if you have one). I do this, but as I weigh every one am not sure that it's necessary.

Load them all in batch, indexing the powder funnel to the next in turn. Peer into the case when finished with an LED torch to eyeball the powder level, but mainly to ensure you haven't missed any. If this all checks out, seat the bullets in batch, and you're done.

It's tedious, and laborious to load and seat each one individually. It serves no purpose because you get more feel for variations in a continuous cycle than faffing about going through all the steps one round at a time.

Checking total weight of each round at the end won't diagnose an 'over or under' powder charge variation because the normal weight variations in brass & bullet eclipse this. Weighing anything on kitchen scales is futile as these are too coarse to help.

Finally, if you need to employ a pal to pull and check the rounds you've loaded because you doubt your own abilities then you really shouldn't be in the business. You said 44 grains and you're reassured that he finds it's actually 43? Neither of you can be right.
 
Brass must be batched.

When using a new batch I first trim them all to the same length then weigh each one and discard any obviously different ones.

Even if it is the same manufacturer, if a new batch differs much from the previous batch, consider re-working up the load. As a minimum check the zero and grouping haven't altered.

I also weigh all the bullets and reject any odd ones.

First firing is done with a start load and used for practice/rough zeroing etc. Even if you FL size, the cases are never sized as tight as new. Trim again after the first firing, then just check periodically. A safe load in a fired case might be overpressure in a new case, or at least shoot differently.

Batch process with a single stage press is the way for consistency.

When charging cases, start with empty ones loose in a tub, then put the filled cases one by one into a loading block. The plastic insert from .44mag pistol ammo is just right for .308 sized cases.

If you use a powder thrower its still best to throw a low weight then trickle up to the final value in the scales, rather than blindly trusting it.

If using a digital scale check its tare and drift regularly. Buy a calibration weight too. I tare the scale with the powder pan/funnel, then make a note of the weight of the pan on the bottom.

Every time I remove the pan and fill a case I check that the scale shows the exact negative weight of the pan. This gives good confidence that the scale hasn't drifted or otherwise gone wrong. When the batteries are low the readings can be erratic, a nearby mobile 'phone can interfere, etc.

I use the marked pan as a test weight too. If it varies from one session to the next I check the scale carefully and re-calibrate.

Only filled cases are ever present in the load block. Only loose cases from the tub are ever charged with powder. Avoid distraction e.g. answering the 'phone, making a cup of tea, going to the loo partway through the batch.

If you first weigh the brass and bullets, then check the completed rounds afterwards, you
should see very good consistency, enough to detect a badly thrown charge. For weighing brass and bullets a digital scale is most efficient. Buy one with a sensible range and resolution to cope with the weight of your completed rounds. DO NOT think of using it as a powder scale too, that requires a much much finer resolution.

I've seen digital scales advertised as powder scales that are completely unsuitable. E.g. ones which resolve to 0.2 grains. This means your loads could vary by 0.4 grains, even if they were perfectly accurate (they aren't). Milligram resolution scales are readily available and perfect for the job.

Very important to check the completed weight when loading pistol calibres, where e.g. a double or empty charge from a turret press is quite possible. I've seen gallery rifles with blocked barrels where a squib load has lodged a bullet in the barrel and another one (or more) have been subsequently fired. Easily done in rapid fire competitions.

If all this sounds too complicated, really it isn't, and you will KNOW that your rounds are correct.
 
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